What Did You Expect
January 14th, 2008 by ACTivist
I’m not at the correct computer so I cannot link sites but I will give you times and locations. Sorry.
Going backwards (in more ways than one) today’s Washington Post on the front page talks about an ILLEGAL immigrant who worried about graduating from Loudoun County public schools because he would loose his refuge. Refuge? But it seems that parents and counselors helped him out by having him return to Mexico for a year and speeding his visa to re-enter the U.S. Now he can afford to go to college with in-state tuition. How nice. The article also states that there are about 65,000 illegal high school graduates a year. Hummm.
Thursday, January 10 has an article in the Loudoun Easterner that states the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors retracted their efforts to pursue allowing illegals from getting business permits and going after the businesses that hire illegals. The state will handle it. It is a federal problem. We have other issues of more importance (i.e. the roads that are crowded, the schools that are crowded) and we need to find out how to pay for things with a depressed housing market. After all, we don’t coax business to Loudoun to off-set taxes of homeowners. We coax business so that we have places to go for school field trips. Loudoun is alot more affluent than Fairfax and the residences can afford anything thrown at them. We have deep pockets you know!
On this same thursday an article on the front page of the Washington Post talks about what Kaine will do with the issue of illegal immigration. The state is proposing new laws againest illegals and pushing the point to the federal level. “Kaine stressed that the state has taken steps to enforce laws and that he will fight proposals that seem mean-spirited”. What is mean spirited about enforcing the law? Also he states that “One in 10 Virginians was born outside the United States, Kaine said, and foreign companies created 2,000 jobs in the state.” We created more jobs overseas then what is created here. And those born outside the U.S. seem to mostly congregate in No. Va.
When the Democrats get into office, things change. Not for the better. With the articles above, socialism is festering right along. Do you think a Democratic president will be any different or just a tremendous boost for the cause.
As Kaine states, “6 percent of Virginians have serious mental illness and that one in four have a diagnosed mental illness.” Welcome to the state of mentals.
This entry was posted on Monday, January 14th, 2008 at 10:39 am and is filed under Homeland Security, Socialism, immigration. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Thanks, ACTivist for proving what I have long claimed, that the issue with many of you anti-immigrant activists is not that laws have been broken but that you just don’t like immigrants even when they’re children. So people helped this kid become legal. So what? Shouldn’t you be satisfied with that? Isn’t that supposedly what you are fighting for? So 65,000 kids have parents whose immigration status is questionable. Would you prefer to punish those kids and deny them an education because of their parents’ circumstances? Most people, you might be interested to know, find it pretty disgusting to go after children. Thanks for showing us what your true agenda is.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
zimzo,
Missed the point again. And don’t put the “going after the kids for what the parents did” on the table. Point is, this is ONE case and the bleeding hearts helped out. Guess what? Even though the kid went back, he had special help to fight his case to get him here again….ahead of all those waiting to do it legally from the git-go. And with 65,000 nationwide every year, you don’t think that there will be similar intervention? Sounds like a road to amnesty to me.
Nice try zimzo, but don’t even try to twist this as a “racist” thing or that of “poor children”. It is bleeding hearts playing to those of good nature and conscience trying to change the landscape about illegals and there offspring. When the parents are accountable for what they do, sometimes the innocent suffer for it. That’s life!
January 14th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Another group of immigrants that get special help are the rich. They don’t generally have to wait in long lines like everyone else either. This whole perception that seems to be widely held about a line that all the good, decent, moral folks around the world are patiently waiting in while all the corrupt, immoral, and downright evil folks are passing alltogether is very strange.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
LAURA V.
WOULD YOU PLEASE CLARIFY YOUR STATEMENT: RICH IMMIGRANTS, NEED TO EXPAND ON THAT.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Zimzo,
thanks for prooving again that you can’t read. ACT’s point is that the kid is here milking the system for all its worth and the forget-the-law types, like you, don’t even notice that you are being had.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
ZIMZO:
HERE YOU GO AGAIN: USING CHILDREN IN THE CHESS GAME.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, ALIEN OR UNDOCUMENTED PERSON WEITHER IT BE MAN. WOMAN OR CHILD: IF THEY PASS INTO OUR NATION WITH PROPER DOCUMENTS THAN THEY SHOULD RETURN HOME PERIOD.
AS FOR CHILDREN BORN HERE, WELL MEXICO AS A LAW THAT STATES ANY CHILD BORN TO A MEXICAN IS A MEXICAN CITIZEN, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE BORN, SO FOR ME THEY GO HOME TO.
AS FOR ACTivist: I AGREE, THE PARENTS OF THESE CHILDREN ARE RESPONISIBLE FOR THEIR CHILDREN.
NOT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND IT’S CITIZENS.
January 14th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOP’S CAUGHT THAT”
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, ALIEN OR UNDOCUMENTED PERSON WEITHER IT BE MAN. WOMAN OR CHILD: IF THEY PASS INTO OUR NATION without PROPER DOCUMENTS THAN THEY SHOULD RETURN HOME PERIOD.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Forgive me if I don’t believe you when you say that you are appalled by law-breaking and unfairness. I am sure there are plenty of laws you have broken or skirted (taxes, marijuana, speeding, etc.) and I will start believing you care about fairness when you start agitating to ban legacy admissions, admissions to students whose parents give large sums of money to schools and sports scholarships to the borderline illiterate. And as Laura V pointed out if you are an immigrant with money who can hire an expensive lawyer suddenly the immigration laws don’t seem so tough.
Finally, I’m not quite sure what you mean by “bleeding heart.” Seems to me Jesus would be a bleeding heart by your definition. But then there don’t seem to be a lot of people on this blog who care about anything Jesus said except for all of those times he denounced gay people and abortion, though I can’t seem to find those quotes in my version of the Bible.
January 14th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Zimzo’
Put the bong down
January 14th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
TO G. STONE:
A RING OF TRUTH HERE?
ZIMZO: WHERE ARE YOU HEADED WITH THIS?
January 14th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
HEY DID YOU KNOW THAT IN FIREFOX IF YOU HOLD DOWN THE CTRL KEY AND ROLE THE SCROLL WHEEL ON YOUR MOUSE UP OR DOWN YOU CAN CHANGE SIZE OF THE TEXT IN THE BROWSER? IT REALLY COMES IN HANDY
January 14th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
STAY PUFT MM
A NOTE IN GENERAL OR TO ONE DIRECTLY?
January 14th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
IT’S SOMETHING THAT I’M HOPING EVERYONE FINDS BENEFICIAL
January 14th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
The young man did exactly what he was supposed to do. He went back to Mexico, he filled out all the necessary papers, he went to the proper authorities, he got his visa after over one year of preparations. He was fortunate to have been supported by people who believed in him enough to help him with their own money to become a legal resident in the USA. He can now work and pay income taxes and with further education, there’s no doubt he’ll be an asset to the country. - Do you remember when a female athlete, who was likely to win an Olympic medal for the US, was given her green card in about 24 hours through some magic moves in Congress. She came in from Canada I believe. (Don’t know whether she got a medal or not).
January 14th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Zimzo,
You Wrote:
“Finally, I’m not quite sure what you mean by “bleeding heart.” Seems to me Jesus would be a bleeding heart by your definition.”
I Reply:
Try this. Jesus called for us to repent for our sins and to give onto Caesar. In short if you are breaking the law, stop and don’t do this anymore. Having sympathy for those who are unrepentant and continue breaking the law is not Christ like. Christ wanted a broken and contrite heart.
The fellow described above is not contrite. He feels he has been wronged, this after living illegally in a country. He has received free of charge an education to which he is technically not entitled. He should have been educated elsewhere. This is hubris on his part and misplaced sympathy on the part of those who agree with him.
As for Marjorie or anyone else breaking the law, we all sin. So what?
January 14th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Marjorie,
Can you change the font on your web browser? Trust me, you will appreciate it and we can stop having to educate the newbies.
Hope you don’t mind.
January 14th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
WILL CK INTO IT,
January 15th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Marjorie, What Jacob is talking about is at the top of your browser (Firefox) click view, on the drop down list you will see text, run your mouse on it and you will see increase and decrease. You just keep clicking it until you have the font size best for you.
You may prefer it to caps, you can make it very large and if you make it too large, just decrease.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:07 am
The kid in the article was looking for in-state tuition rates to attend a Virginia college. Plenty of kids in Maryland or West Virginia, I would imagine, would like the same favor. I would think all reasonable people would let the out of state legal residents go to the head of that line.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:29 am
No, Zimzo’s right the kid did nothing against the law, and I’m assuming the school has an elected board of regents who have legal authority to set admission prices and policies. “This is a nation of laws” and in this case none have been broken. Move along.
“Plenty of kids in Maryland or West Virginia, I would imagine, would like the same favor.” Too bad, they’re on the wrong side of the border, why should Virginia’s taxpayers have to pay for other people’s kids? Isn’t that how we roll?
January 15th, 2008 at 2:55 am
Yeah but they are in the country legally and they and their parent pay taxes. They have legitimate Social Security numbers. Isn’t THAT how we roll?
January 15th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Jacob, is that honestly the only message you get out of Jesus’ teachings, that people should obey the law and be contrite if they break the law? That’s a pretty narrow and unique view of Jesus’ teachings. And since when is breaking man’s law considered a sin? Can you please point me to the passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people they must “repent” of “continuing to break” man’s law? Again I seem to be missing that passage in my version of the Bible. It’s fascinating to me how the Bible seems to say whatever you want it to say. I think you must have a magic Bible.
And besides, no laws were broken here.
Meanwhile, Joe seems to think that someone who was born in another country but whose immigration status is perfectly legal should have fewer rights than someone whose parents were born here. That is what you’re saying, isn’t it, Joe? Many illegal immigrants do pay payroll taxes and virtually all of them pay sales and property taxes. Even those with fake Social Security numbers still pay money into Social Security that they will never get back. Others have legitimate Taxpayer ID numbers that function like Social Security numbers.
And yet, Joe, you still seem to think that even though this kid obeyed the law and pays taxes and is a resident of Virginia that he should still have fewer rights than someone out of state apparently just because he’s a “foreigner” in your eyes.
As I said, this whole discussion has been very revealing about the real agenda behind your anti-immigration activism. It isn’t really broken laws or fairness you care about. You guys just don’t like “foreigners.”
January 15th, 2008 at 11:11 am
…a damning inditment indeed. And need I point out that this discussion comes on the heels of the one that tried to draw a connection between Hilary Clinton and nazi Germany. Could these be indications that America’s conservative wing is loosing it?
January 15th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
The law was broken by the parents and the child is a ward of same said. That the child went back and did it right is a good thing. In the meantime he spent however long in this country knowing that he was illegal and dreding the day he would lose the “refuge” of public education.
Let’s do some basic math. We’ll say nationally that the average student cost per year in public school is $12,000 dollars. Whether you have kids or not, EVERYONE pays for public school thru mostly property taxes.
You have 10 people living in a rented house. 4 of those people are school aged kids. The rent for the mortgage is $1500 dollars. The house is assessed at $350,000 dollars. Here’s the cool part. The more people living in the house, the less your share of the rent to contribute. The assessment only gets paid by the OWNER and if he charges more than the mortgage that is due he gets to make money. Good capitalism.
Now the county only charges taxes on the house-not the people inside. County automatically loses money on this deal. Those same said rentors also tag their vehicles in another state so as to not pay personnal property taxes. Another savings for them and loss for the county. Some of the rentors are illegals with fake SSN’s. Now, in their own country, they were making, say, $20 a day. Here they make $10 an hour. They have to pay SS which is what, 6.5% or .65 cents per hour that they don’t get back? Okay, fair enough. Let’s see who makes out.
Illegal= 8 hrs. x $10 = $80 bucks - SS ($5.20)=$74.80 before other taxes. That would have been over a quarter of his daily pay back home. Think he is crying the blues?
Personnal property tax paid=0
Education for each child=$12,000.
What a wonderful country. And to think that there are people out there that think this behavior is okay and acceptable. The world is upside-down. Kaine was wrong. I think the number of pure certifiables are much greater than we think!
And puff, your reasoning is way off. This came up because the planets were aligned correctly at the exact moment I thought about it.
January 15th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
So children are responsible for what their parents do? And illegal immigrants typically live 10 to a house with 4 children so that means they don’t pay property taxes? Huh?
January 15th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
all renters pay property tax, it’s included in the rent. property tax is the basis for most school funding.
Also, keep in mind that that $74.8 you came up with isn’t just disappearing from the economy. Maybe a portion is sent to their country of origin, but they use most of it to buy food, gas, a car, a computer, shrubbery. The more active consumers in the economy, the more opportunity for doing business with them, and by extension, the more opportunity for creating new jobs. There are what, 13 million undocumented people? What if 1 in 10 of them buys a computer from dell, or a ford, or a hamburger from mcdonalds? These are American companies… think about it.
anyway, they’ve conducted studies of how must is paid in and how much is taken out by undocumented people, and have come up with different results. Some show that they get slightly more than they pay in, some show that they pay in significantly more on average than they use in social services.
ultimately, the economic argument has never really held up, which is why the anti-immigration people must invariably resort to the “this is a nation of laws” argument. Fair enough, but if you’ve got a problem with this kid, it’s because you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too, as it were
January 15th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
zimzo,
“Jacob, is that honestly the only message you get out of Jesus’ teachings, that people should obey the law and be contrite if they break the law? That’s a pretty narrow and unique view of Jesus’ teachings.”
Is not the message of the Gospel that one ought to repent of ones sins? Christ called us to repent and seek God through the Son. Please note in Romans …
“if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation” (Rom. 10:9-10)
Christ came and died for our sins so that we could be saved. Because we need saving.
“And since when is breaking man’s law considered a sin? Can you please point me to the passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people they must “repent” of “continuing to break” man’s law? ”
First of let us start with “Give unto Ceaser that which is Ceasers”, then let us move onto
Romans 13
” 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”
Would you like some more?
“Again I seem to be missing that passage in my version of the Bible. It’s fascinating to me how the Bible seems to say whatever you want it to say. I think you must have a magic Bible.”
No, I do not have a magic Bible, but I have a tattered and dog eared bible, and you obviously do not have a clue what is in yours.
“And besides, no laws were broken here.”
If the Kid was in this country illegally several laws where broken.
1. illegal entry (a misdemeanor if within a given distance of the border, possibly a felony after that {this point can be debated})
2. falsification of documents to show residency (a felony)
If his parents where working then …
3.a not paying and state federal taxes if income is unreported (a felony)
OR
3.b paying taxes after using a phony SS# (a felony)
If someone is driving using a phony license OR a license obtained with false documents (a felony)
try again?
January 15th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Again, Jacob, it is remarkable that you can miss so much of what Jesus actually said, such as his teachings about compassion for the poor and disenfranchised and you always have to go to Paul to prove your narrow stingy view of Christianity.
We have already had a long discussion about the two passages you pointed out, the former referring specifically to the paying of taxes and the latter an extremely controversial passage from, of course, Paul that taken at face value would mean that the American revolution and the Civil Rights movement were un-Christian. I think most of us agreed that we didn’t really want to go there.
And, no, the kid returned to his home country and applied for a visa legally so no laws were broken although his parents might have broken the law when they first brought him here when he was a minor.
So you try again.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
zimzo,
“We have already had a long discussion about the two passages you pointed out, the former referring specifically to the paying of taxes and the latter an extremely controversial passage from, of course, Paul that taken at face value would mean that the American revolution and the Civil Rights movement were un-Christian. I think most of us agreed that we didn’t really want to go there”
Actually zimzo from a purely Christian perspective the Romans passage is not all that controversial. If a government is engaged in activity that is directly at odds with God’s law then we are free to rebel or protest. The Civil Rights movement was more congruent with God’s teaching than our revolution against the British Crown. Jim Crow was a law passed by Democrats and violated the second great commandment.
As for ‘Giving onto Ceaser …’ you once again stumble into the fundamentalist interpretation camp. Wow, you keep attacking like Pat Robertson but you keep interpreting it in the way he would. Hmmmm. Curioser and curioser.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:56 am
Jacob, is the United States governing through God’s authority now? So what are we voting for? Does H-e need help making up His mind?
(I’m guessing you already have a well thought-out answer to the above question)
“Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s…” is typically interpreted as referring specifically to tax collection. It isn’t a fundamentalist thing. In fact, it’s the only interpretation I’ve ever heard from anyone other than you. It’s hard to imagine it referring to anything else. The passage suggests that people should “pay their dues” (so to speak) to God in the same way that they pay taxes to Caesar. If Jesus’ intent was to simply insist that people obey the law of the land, he chose an odd way of working it… God as a tax-and-spend liberal??
…out of curiosity, what’s the biblical justification for the claim that, “If a government is engaged in activity that is directly at odds with God’s law then we are free to rebel or protest.”
January 16th, 2008 at 11:56 am
puft,
“all renters pay property tax, it’s included in the rent. property tax is the basis for most school funding.”
You really gonna stand by that statement? You gonna tell me 6 people will pay the amount of property tax 6 times? Oh, you mean that they each pay a PORTION of the TOTAL property tax. One set amount, 6 people. Same set amount, 12 people. I don’t know about anyone else but I also include a retirement fee in my rent amount. I just don’t break it down to show that it is in there. Really weak, puft. This one doesn’t pass muster.
“ultimately, the economic argument has never really held up”
I would say to you “global warming has never been proven”.
If I go on vacation to another area or country, aren’t I supporting that economy by being there? And if I don’t go there and others don’t do the same, does that economy shrink? If that place that I don’t go to never was “found out”, was there a need to grow that areas’ economy in the first place?
Do we need a McDonalds’ on every corner? A WalMart? Tippy”s Taco? A bank? These are the places I have observed as being greatly frequented by non-English speaking individuals. Just like the jobs-mostly unskilled. Where are the engineers? architects? chemists? biologists? doctors? Why do we not have “illegals” with degrees and of higher education? How many people does it take to mow lawns or feed people burgers? They create their own jobs for their own needs, not for ours.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Joe, please make ACTivist the spokesman for Help Save Loudoun.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Marshmallow,
“Jacob, is the United States governing through God’s authority now? So what are we voting for? Does H-e need help making up His mind?”
Good question. Very good question. Requires a new posting I am afraid. Several issues need to be hashed through …
1. God’s soveriegnty (and what does THAT mean)
2. Is the corporeal guv’mint doing God’s will
a- and if not why does he allow it?
b- if it is, why does God’s will include a Guv’mint full if evil people, commiting evil acts.
3. w.r.t. 1 and 2.b is free will in play?
4. w.r.t. 2.a how does God’s sovereignty operate?
5. God is not with either party. Joshua asked an angel of the Lord if he was with Joshua, the answer was NO. The angle was with God, implying Joshua was with God not the other way around.
a. Voting. Lets see, does God care if HRC or BHO is the democrat candidate. hmmm.
b. does he care if it is Mitt, McCain or the Twit(Huckypoo),
6. Does God decide the election in advance?
7. Does God need help in making up his mind?? NO.
The answers to 1-6 requires more thought and time than I would care to provide during my 10 minute coffee break. If you wish I will write a missive, it will give you something to throw rocks at, which would be great fun.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
yay! …but I’m a bit surprised that you haven’t already hashed out this connection between god’s will and the democratic process.
January 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
act:
why would anyone pay taxes on 1 property 6 times?
“Do we need a McDonalds’ on every corner? A WalMart? Tippy”s Taco? A bank?”
Do we like job creation? ..we’re assuming that economic growth is preferable to stagnation
“I would say to you “global warming has never been proven”.”
and I would say that that’s an increasingly foolish position to take on that issue
January 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
puft,
My point is not that economic growth is not good, but that the cart was before the horse. The need was created by those that came here illegally looking for work. Had there been a true (not fabricated) need for additional help, it would have been done locally and then thru programs that exists.
Did you not understand the “paying taxes” example? It’s like stealing at a department store. When the owner looses merchandise thru theft, he compensates by making all customers pay higher prices to offset that loss. Same with county taxes. More people per house, less money coming in for taxes.
“and I would say that that’s an increasingly foolish position to take on that issue”
On global warming, you show me 6 scientists that believe, I show you 6 that don’t. In whom does the credibility lie? Same with the economic arguement. Foolish is just dismissing something totally without knowing the facts.