On Ranting and Racism
January 17th, 2008 by joe
Maybe I can clear something up for our visitors who have become entangled in the recent long discussion. You see, there is a significant strand of modern liberal thought which is deeply vested in the notion that white America is inexorably racist. The only way this condition can be cured, the theory goes, is through major structural reforms.
As most of us know, the whole “major structural reform” concept is a dear one to the left, particularly if it mitigates against anything that might be considered remotely “traditional” about our nation and our culture.
You know, our horrible, patriarchical society where sex is deeply repressed (funny how people have kept getting themselves reproduced, though!), our values such as personal self-sufficiency and personal responsibility are unfair, and where the whole dirty thing was basically born out of the sin of slavery.
For a number of reasons, many of those on the left are invested in this interpretation of reality. This is why our friends like Zimzo see bigots behind every tree. And in a sense, this is true, because in that reality being white means you are likely a bigot unless you are a leftist like Zimzo (although, as we have seen, Zimzo has had serious problems overcoming his own original sin in this regard.)
In fairness, we do need to allow that many “liberals” - whom I do not equate with “leftists,” which I might delve into further in another post - simply have not thought this one through. They are TAUGHT that whites are by nature bigots, and it may take time for them to overcome this cultural “bad parenting.”
Since our cherished yet ultimately misguided resident liberals are clamoring for someone, ANYONE to respond to the notorious post #9: Your eagerness touches me, so this time I will tell you what I think:
I think H.E. is seriously pissed off, but from all of his or her previous posts over the past two years I do not think the person is a racist at all. They demonstrate a fair amount of worldliness and have indicated they live in a multi-ethnic neighborhood - either Sterling or Manassas. I can tell you that both of these areas have been heavily Hispanic for a long time, but the you-know-what has only hit the fan in the past 7 years.
H.E. has in fact agreed with the thesis that illegal immigration has its worst impact on black Americans. I don’t see this individual shying away from brown or black people in the supermarket check out line.
The gist of H.E.’s axe to grind seems to me to be not a problem with who or what “they” are, but with what they DO - i.e. not demonstrating a willingness to play by the rules, jump through the proper hoops, and in general take the necessary steps to become American.
I have written about this phenomenon that migrant workers are akin to “renters” writ large in the context of our culture: They have no investment in it, and do not intend to become part of it, and therefore create their own enclaves.
(I know Zimzo argues that the lessons of 1908 should guide our policies today. I strongly disagree, but that is an argument for another post.)
I get the sense that H.E. has some direct experience with the subculture of illegal domestic employment. He or she has spoken with apparent personal knowledge about conditions in the public schools and social services agencies. If H.E. lives in one of the areas of Manassas with higher population of illegals, it does not surprise me that his or her rants might occasionally take on a tribal tone because I have heard the same thing from many other longtime residents who would not otherwise be classified as racist in the least.
I fall on the side of libertarianism when speech is involved, as you all know, and I think our nation is raising a generation (or two) of crybabies, so even though they were characterizations I would not use, I would not call H.E. a bigot. I’d just say H.E. is ranting, so deal with it.
But it is a fascinating topic how speech is interpreted nowadays when so many otherwise intelligent people are wearing bigot-seeking goggles, so thanks for asking.
This entry was posted on Thursday, January 17th, 2008 at 12:05 pm and is filed under Culture, Socialism, immigration. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Has anyone read the guest editorial in the Loudoun Independent this week? It’s written by Phyllis Randall and worth taking a look at.
Sorry but I don’t know how to do a link but this is the IP address.
http://www.loudouni.com/getnote.php?contentid=2365
I know she’s a Dem but I love this girl!
January 17th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Phyllis is indeed wonderful. I wish she had been running against someone besides Lori Waters!
January 17th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Spot on Joe. Yes, too often speech is measured by it’s political correctness. There seems to be a prevailing liberal dogma if a statement is not pc by their yardstick, it is therefore racist, bigotry, fascist, etc… This stereotyping is nothing less than a form of bigotry, although those on the left will argue otherwise.
Very succinct post H.E., kindly ignore the peanut gallery..
January 17th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
As noted previously, H.E., the government would mandate vaccinations for these people if the government could get them into the pipeline for legal residency. Let’s SUPPORT a PRAGMATIC SOLUTION to the immigration problem; and NOT a solution that comes across as hateful, NOT as solution that would have negative impact on our economy, and NOT a solution that would result in citizens having to prove their legal residency.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I’m glad you finally decided to respond, Joe. However, you did what you always do and said basically that because you think Had Enough is a good person, you don’t think what he said was bigoted. But no one said he was bigoted, we said that his statements referring to letting an “Illegal Alien from a Third World Country kiss and slobber all over your baby and children while babysitting,” characterizing illegal immigrants as people who “crawled over the border in the middle of the night” and claiming that “almost everyone from these third world countries has never had a shot in their life in addition to being exposed to or carry some of the worst diseases in the world” were bigoted statements, not to mention untrue because as I showed later in the thread a higher percentage of Mexican children are immunized than American children. I also demonstrated how Had Enough’s rhetoric about illegal immigrants being disease-ridden was simmilar to rhetoric Nazis used against Jews.
Instead, of defending or distancing yourself from the content of his remarks you defended him personally and personally attacked those who found his comments to be bigoted. And once again in your anger at me, you took my parody of your statement assailing a Spanish-speaking maid for not speaking English and tried to pass off this obvious satire as representing my true feelings, which is not only pretty desperate and repugnant, but demonstrates that my parody of your remarks hit a nerve because on some level you believe that I am right about your behavior being embarrassing.
I, believe it or not, also “fall on the side of libertarianism when speech is involved” but I think that goes both ways and that we should feel free to call on a bigoted comment when we see it. Pretending that the label is meaningless and that we are just looking for bigotry is your way of avoiding the issue. I could just as easily say that you never see bigotry even when it is right in front of your face. And you seem to bend over backwards to defend the bigotry of others, whether it is Had Enough referring to immigrants as disease-ridden, Jacob calling Italians “whops,” Jack calling Arabs “ragheads” or Ann Coulter using the word “faggot.”
The anti-immigrant movement is full of bigots as you well know, from the Minutemen to VDARE, and if you don’t want Help Save Loudoun tarred with the same brush and if you want people to believe that your agenda is not based on hatred for immigrants, then it seems to me you would be very careful about setting yourself and your organization apart from the most obvious expressions of bigotry such as Had Enough’s. Your failure to do so would lead most reasonable observers to believe that you either share these sentiments or that your loyalty to your friends and supporters has blinded you to the dangers of associating your cause with their agenda. I hope it’s the latter rather than the former.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
You seem to be confusing even yourself with this attempt to distinguish between “bigotry” and “bigoted statement” because your argument is not stated consistently. In any case, I don’t follow. But, being charitable and in an attempt to play your game despite your inability to explain the rules, I will allow that the times I have said under my breath after reading one of your indignant tirades, “sanctimonious faggot!!!” - I may have been crossing into the realm of what you define as “bigoted statements.”
I prefer to define it as “hyperbolic truth.”
(By the way, I am by NO means accepting any of the “statistics” you apparently provided until I have a chance to research them. Sorry, but you have some work to do in the area of credibility before such propositions can go unchallenged. I’m sure these examples will be topics of future discussion here.)
Your “explanation” of your self-described “satire” is not getting any more convincing, I hate to inform. Most people would say it demonstrates clear evidence of ethnocentric thinking.
I don’t know that much about VDARE, but I know a fair amount about the Minutemen, and your blanket statement is just one more example of Zimzo-Speaks-From-His-A**. This kind of puts the icing on my refutation, I daresay. I have met a lot of the MM from all over the U.S. and most all of them are outstanding people.
Stick with what you know, whatever that happens to be.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Though we both know how disingenuous you are being in trying to paint my words as anything other than a parody of you, for the benefit of any visitors who do not understand what I was referring to, here are your words, Marjorie’s words and my words side by side:
Joe Budzinski:
I can do you one better: I was in Palm Springs in October and needed to tell the housekeeping staff not to clean our room because we had a bunch of work papers spread around. I caught her in the hallway and said “Excuse me, we don’t want you to clean room 1031″ and explained we just wanted new towels. She understood me perfectly but would not conduct the conversation until I had repeated everything I needed in Spanish. She’d state each phrase in Spanish, and wait for me to repeat it.
http://novatownhall.com/2007/12/15/joey-ventos-day-in-court/#comment-310
Marjorie:
WE AS AMERICANS NEED TO VOICE OUR DISPLEASURE OF HAVING TO DEAL WITH “ALIENS” WHO WILL NOT LEARN ENGLISH, COME INTO OUR NATION ILLEGALLY AND EXPECT EVERYTHING ON A SILVER PLATTER.YET STILL LIVE LIKE THEY ARE IN THEIR COUNTRY. VOICE YOUR COMPLAINTS TO YOUR SENATOR OR CONGRESS PERSON. REMEMBER, YOUR VOTE DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RE-ELECT THESE PEOPLE. AMERICANS NEED TO REMEMBER THERE IS NO SHAME IN ANY JOB YOU DO, DO SAID JOB WITH PRIDE AND DIGNITY, NO MATTER WHAT THE PAY..IT HELPS TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE, COATS ON THE BACK.
Zimzo:
Hey, Marjorie, can you come over and clean my bathroom for me? It’s a mess and I know you won’t be ashamed. My maid quit when I wouldn’t give her the cleaning supplies on a silver platter. At least I think that was the reason. She kept saying “bandeja de plata” over and over again, even though I know she can speak English because whenever I pointed at something and yelled very loud, she seemed to understand.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
THAT is what I call an abstruse connection, Zimzo, but thank you for stating your case.
Holy mackerel, have we hit a nerve or what.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
On the contrary, Joe, it is I who have hit a nerve, which is why you feel the need to lie in order to deflect attention from your own embarrassing words, which already sounded like a parody of the Ugly American and hardly needed my help.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I suppose our readers are bright enough to read the words for themselves and assess your “parody” response to Marjorie.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
HEY ZIMZO;
open your mind……get past these and try a new thought.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Joe - do you think you could possible use more words to say less than you have just done in this post? Is there a prize for that?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Why use twenty words when when there’s time for 20,000?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:08 am
It’s not so much the size, it’s how you use it. A blog post is not brilliant simply because of its word count. A blog that starts out inane and self indulgent does not improve simply by the addition of more words. That is like imagining that a terrible wine improves with consumption. although I am guessing you may find that to be true.
Actually, I thought the post was pretty good (though typically self indulgent), until you linked it to the HE post. A zebra is still a zebra no matter how thoroughly you cover its stripes. I certainly don’t know anything about Had Enough in “real’ life, but to the extent that we can assume that his post was an accurate reflection of his feelings, it is very revealing. The only thing we agree about in regards to its interpretation is that he is clearly pissed off. I suspect that HE’s post was somewhat a reflection of what you intuitively feel as well, but are too intelligent to write yourself. It reminds me of the Clinton’s allowing their supporters to ignite all manner of controversy and once it out there pretending their hands are clean.
Now, here is a link: (http://www.unicef.org/publications/files/Immunization_Summary_2007.pdf) to the Unicef 2007 world immunizations program that clearly demonstrates that Mexico has better coverage rates than the United States. If you would also like me to send a link to the report that says there is greater incidence of HIV AIDS in the United States than Latin America I would be happy to do so.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Joe,
Although H.E.’s post was a bit blunt, I could definitely see the anger but MOSTLY the frustration he/she is going thru. I have seen much latitude towards others who comment on these threads. Sometimes cool heads just can’t prevail when an issue hits close to home.
As for zimzo and his parody, it’s zimzo’s rules. With zimzo you have to realize that what is good for the goose is NEVER good for the gander.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:54 am
zimzo,
” you did what you always do and said basically that because you think Had Enough is a good person, you don’t think what he said was bigoted.”
Then how is what you do any different from joe? Every time you make a subjective judgement and declare a statement bigoted you are engaging in a values call as well. It is a values call that has no more weight than any of the other denizens of this blog.
That was the point I was making. I was also looking for all of us to cool it. I never see you giving anyone’s comments the benefit of the doubt. Having been tarred by you in this simplistic way on more than one occasion, I find it at best tiresome.
I alluded to your beng to fast on the draw in this, and Joe refuted your comments using the same style of logic that you used to in reference to the now infamous comment #9. Except his outcome was the opposite of yours. BTW both of you have not proven anything here because neither of you is equiped to peer into H.E.’s heart.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Who cares if it’s blunt? Not me. Is he frustrated? Yes. Pissed off? Yes?
That is not at issue. The issue is that the point that he (HE) was trying to make was not fact based. Wrong. Misquided. Ignorant.
There are planty of legitimate, fact based reasons to be upset about our immigration system and all its failings. The assumption that disease ridden illegal immigrants crawl over the border to infect us all is not one of them. Let’s maintain high standards of discourse, shall we?
January 18th, 2008 at 11:15 am
“The anti-immigrant movement”
zimzo, you omitted the word “illegal” which is germane.
Very odd how these lefties seem to always banter endlessly about “militia” as a scope limiter, but always omit the “illegal” qualifier when discussing immigration.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:32 am
“Unicef 2007 world immunizations program that clearly demonstrates that Mexico has better coverage rates than the United States.”
I would certainly expect a UNICEF immunization program to be more involved in a third world country. This does not make much a point, or are you trying to say this is why U.S. citizens are reintroducing tuberculosis and other diseases into Mexico ? If true, I promise I will not go to Mexico and slobber on someone’s child.
You should do some research over at CDC. Some of their forecasts are actually quite scary, some of which are already occurring in Europe and Scandinavia.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:41 am
You nailed me, Laura: I am afraid of brown people.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Laura,
“That is not at issue. The issue is that the point that he (HE) was trying to make was not fact based. Wrong. Misquided. Ignorant.”
The discussion is not whether the comment was ignorant but rascist. One does not equate to the other.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
The statistics provided show that there is better vaccination coverage in Mexico than the United States. That is all. It has nothing to do with how active UNICEF is in any country. I found the reports on the CDC website by the way. Fascinating stuff there. I provided this because Joe did not accept that statement without proof. I also provided it because Had Enough seems to believe that Latin Americans do not recieve any vaccinations.
Joe- stick to posts about your family history and life story, or even 7 different versions of the same photograph of yourself. Those posts make no effort to disguise how much you think about yourself, something that is only thinly veiled in all of your other posts. I am a few credits short of the degree in psychiatry that I would need to really nail you. Happily I have better things to do!
January 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Jacob- I never said he was racist. Whether he is racist or not his comment was ignorant. Latin Americans are not a race anyway, moot point. I don’t care what the discussion is about. It should be about the fact that it was a ridiculous post.
I also found it funny that Joe would try to make the case that HE is not a racist or a bigot simply because HE feels that African Americans are disproportionately affected by illegal immigrants. What the hell? Reminds me of a certain HSL guest speaker who tried to claim that she was automatically immune from being called racist because she is black and has experienced discrimination herself. I mean, whether or not he is or isn’t, what a nonsensical way to try to make your case.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Now that you mention it, I do happen to be the subject I know the most about, so maybe my subconscious mind is simply steering me toward my area of greatest expertise.
Or, maybe, I like to have pictures of regular people up on the blog to give a sense of context to different locations, but am wary of posting others’ too often because you never know how someone will react to having their photo on the Internet. With me, I expect little pushback from myself.
Or, perhaps, I don’t mind holding myself up to ridicule because it helps keep me in my place.
Regardless of the reason, now that I know it pleases you, I feel certain I’ll find reasons to post many, many more.
And regarding that degree in psychiatry, congrats. You are certainly ready for the real world as far as I can tell, by your deft analysis of my inner ethnocentrism. I would not mind being your first patient, in fact, because in our office of 15 people I have somehow managed to hire three African Americans and three Latinos - one of whom is my executive assistant - and it gives me the willies every morning to go into work. I wear a surgical mask, gloves and Howard Hughes footies to every staff meeting. So you call me as soon as you are accepting customers, ok? Nobody’s ever understood me the way you do.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Thanks for making an exception to teh degree requirements. $110 dollars a pop (cash or checks only) and I don’t take insurance.
Also, just to clarify, I never said you were a bigot or a racist either. I just suspect that you and HE share misperceptions about illegal immigrants.
I will make a note to work on your extreme sensitivity after we deal with the narcissism, which I suspect may be linked. Hmmmm, very interesting….
January 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
By the way … what Jacob said. Although being a racist is certainly wrong, a person can be wrong about facts without being a racist. Just as Laura’s very demeaning comments about West Virginians (of which I have two working for me and which my daughter used to be) were misguided, I know deep in her heart she hold a special love for them, so the remark was NOT an example of prejudice.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
I do love West Virginians, in general, and one specifically. XOXOX!!!!!
However, in general you are more likely to see indoor furniture outdoors, multiple cars in various degrees of disrepair, etc than you are in Virginia - at least Northern Virginia. Nothing demeaning about that. Actually it describes my house pretty well. And I drive a bad ass truck that would make any West Virginian green with envy! I would describe myself as 1/4 German, 1/4 French, 1/4 Apache, 1/4 Mexican with a healthy sprinkling of redneck mixed in.
Again, I never said HE was racist, but it’s a slippery slope when you apply facts incorrectly about an entire ETHNICITY (not race)in such an emotional way to form such a negative conclusion. I never said he was a racist though.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Maybe H.E. is the one we need to be hearing more from …
January 18th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
In the spirit of not using many words, I will stop now.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Yeah, Laura, all those vaccinations in Mexico explain why their infant mortality is four times what ours is. Great health care they have down there.
January 19th, 2008 at 6:22 am
Jack, I don’ see any connection between infant mortality rate and vaccinations. FYI, Among 221 countries rated, Singapore at 2.30 has the lowest rate, Sweden at 2.76 is No. 2. USA at 6.37 is 40 countries behind Singapore; AND Greece, Italy, Cuba, S. Korea for example. Mexico’s rate is 16.7. As for health care, look at the capital of the US, and I’m talking about the native population there. Or the rural South. Leaves much to be desired, IMO.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Yes, look at the native population of D.C. and the rural south. What do you see?
January 19th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I see neglect and poverty. What do you see, Jack?
January 19th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Neglect? By whom?
January 19th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
You didn’t answer my question, Jack. What do you see?
January 19th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I see people.
So, how is it that these people are neglected? By whom are they neglected?
January 19th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Liar. You said, “Yes, look at the native population of D.C. and the rural south. What do you see?” The answer to the question you asked was not “people” and you know it. What did you mean by that question, Jack? Tell us honestly. What did you see?
January 19th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Wow. Zimzo, you don’t get a question answered so you then call someone a liar. Gee, I love seeing you get a dose of your own medicine.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:37 am
You people are playing games. Jacob’s comment is inane. “get a dose of your own medicine”. What does that mean? The inner city people all over the US are neglected. It’s especially disgraceful that in the capital of the United States of America, the richest and most powerful country in the world (at present) there are school buildings that are not habitable; lack of air conditioning, buckling gym floors, not enough instruments for bands, a system that cannot fire unqualified teachers.
Administrators that steal money from student activity funds and on and on. Kids don’t get vaccinations which ought to be an easy thing to fix by setting up a clinic at the schools at the beginning of the school year.
The deep south has been neglected. We don’t have money to improve the situation. Health care is in dire straits in most rural areas.
Jack “Neglected by whom?” By everybody!
January 20th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Lovisa,
There is two+ years of history with zimzo playing the evasion game. Inane my foot.
As for your vacuous “Health care is in dire straits in most rural areas.” the mean age of death is currently 78 in the US, in 1970 it was 70. Care to tell me how health is deteriorating?
For the record …
1. It is against the law for a hospital to turn away a patient in the U.S. period end of story.
2. This is why the rest of us pay 12 to 14 thousand a year for medical coverage.
because …
3. We are paying for the those who can’t or don’t pay for their medical treatment.
No one gets turned away, this means we all get treatment. Got it? Or is all that too complicated for you to understand?
January 20th, 2008 at 3:40 am
To Jacob and Lovisa
Jacob said:
1. It is against the law for a hospital to turn away a patient in the u.s. period end of story.
2. This is why the rest of us pay 12 to 14 thousand a year for medical coverage.
Because …
3. We are paying for the those who can’t or don’t pay for their medical treatment.
While jacob is correct, the cost of paying for the un-documented immigrant here has sent our medical expenses even higher. The cost is extended else where, right out of our pockets.
A ER nurse told me that when an un-documented immigrant enters our country, one of the first things they learn is where to get free medical, the ER waiting rooms are always full, as she told me.
The injustice of this, our cost rise, hospitals close for lack payment. While here in america, americans have trouble paying bills, not without fault….but to have millions of un-documented immigrants getting free medical care is closing hospitals and destroying our health care system.
(un-documented immigrant used as not to offend Laura).
January 20th, 2008 at 4:19 am
Lovisa,
“there are school buildings that are not habitable; lack of air conditioning, buckling gym floors, not enough instruments for bands”
This sort of thing happens in areas where people confront a corrupt political establishment. There a several areas in our nation like this. The corruption sets in when the party in power never has no competition. The people become sheep, and the politicians then become wolves, instead of shepherds.
“a system that cannot fire unqualified teachers.”
who do we have to thanks for that?
any solutions? So far I see you crying a lot, now how about some ideas.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:34 am
It’s amazing, Marjorie, how virtually anything that goes wrong in this country can be blamed on illegal immigrants. For example, I have a leaky faucet and I’m certain those pesky illegal immigrants must be to blame somehow.
Of course, the fact that 47 million Americans have no health insurance probably doesn’t have any impact on hospitals at all.
And I love your logic, Jacob, when you argue that health care is great in this country because some people live longer and hospitals have to treat everyone.
Hmm, I wonder then why the U.S. is dead last among the 19 industrialized nations when it comes to preventable deaths and providing timely and effective health care:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hGPrKA627R1svhAL7yih15Ap-bFg
And yes U.S. life expectancy has increased to 78, but that puts it behind 29 other nations including Jordan and Bosnia Herzegovina. Life expectancy in Puerto Rico is even higher than in the 50 states. We do beat out Albania, just barely.
What about infant mortality? The U.S. comes in at 41st.
The U.S. is number 1 when it comes to one health care statistic. The U.S. spends more on health care as a percentage of GDP than any other nation in the world.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
zimzo,
“And I love your logic, Jacob, when you argue that health care is great in this country because some people live longer and hospitals have to treat everyone.”
Did I say great? And what is the yardstick? The number insured and lifespan are two possible metrics. You appear fixated upon the number of insurance policies. I look at the number of years we spend on the planet on average. We differ. Fine. I am not shocked, nor are you, so lets actually have a conversation. Here I go …
The fact of the matter is no one lives forever. So what are we, as a nation, looking for from the medical profession/service/industry? The Chinese at one point on their history would only pay their doctors only when they are healthy. We appear to pay the vast majority to gain the last few years of life. But the water runs deeper than that.
We as a nation are healthier than we were one hundred, 50 and 25 years ago. OK. What should we expect for a service that has increased our lifespans from the mid forties to near eighty years on average. Nothing is for free, it takes energy and time to create the infrastructure, technology and staff that comprise health care in this country.
We take form medical science the idea of infection and so we pasteurize, refrigerate and clean our food. The pharmaceutical companies conduct basic research and create medicines that tame high blood pressure, intestinal tract maladies that used to kill, septic infection, and even some cancers. Both of these activities represent a huge expenditure of effort and is as much part of our medical care as any hospital bed. What would YOU change here zimzo?
MRI’s are just the latest in the string of medical gizmo’s that have mad analysis of human misery more accurate and thus more treatable. Did this not all come about in the very environment you are railing against zimzo?
Has not all the above mentioned pharmacological innovation occurred in this apparent medical wasteland you are railing against? What would be different in your world zimzo? Remember the laws of economics, like the laws of physics, cannot be suspended. If you walk of the cliff you will fall.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
“Hmm, I wonder then why the U.S. is dead last among the 19 industrialized nations when it comes to preventable deaths and providing timely and effective health care:”
Good question. I read the article it does not really explain any of the whys, how the statistics where complied etc. France and the U.S. are two very different countries. We have different kinds of jobs, different levels of immigration, and different everything else. I really would love to see what is being compared.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
So, why is there neglect in the inner cities, but not elsewhere? Neglected by everyone? So who takes care of the people in the suburbs?
January 20th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Gee, Jacob, maybe the reason all of those countries do better than the U.S. in health care in all of the ways I mentioned (plus many others I didn’t) is because every one of those countries has universal health care coverage. But I suppose an Occam’s Razor argument is too difficult for you to handle.
And Jack, I wonder why you still haven’t answered my question honestly. You said, “Yes, look at the native population of D.C. and the rural south. What do you see?” I replied, “I see neglect and poverty. What do you see, Jack?” and you finally answered, “People.” So that is really what you meant? Are you saying that other D.C. and the rural south differ from other areas of the country because they have “people” living in them and other areas don’t? That sounds odd. Or were you actually referring to something else that you are too embarrassed to admit now?
January 20th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Gee zimzo, ever think that the drugs and technology that those countries use as well as aid from the US to places like Jordan might be the reason the health care in places like Jordan is worth a damn?
The number of patents filed in the U.S. in medicine for both pharmacological breakthroughs AND techno wizardry for medical machinary is far and away larger than all of Europe combined. Hello, ever think why?
Universal Coverage is the answer. What a good little socialist you are. Growing up in NY my folks on several occasions had friends come from France and England to get procedures done HERE. We never needed to go there. Hello, ever think why?
Dolt, I can see do not believe in the basic economic theory (you know, supply and demand). Do you believe in gravity, or does everything stay put because the earth sucks?
As always looking for the Utopian perfection, which is the enemy of the good. We have a set of evils in that are endemic in our system. The trouble is you are apparently blind to the evils of socialized medicine and refuse to realize we will simply be trading in one set for another.
Do you know where Utopia happens to be?
January 20th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
GEE ZIMZO,
I WALKED INTO THE ER ROOM WHEN I NEEDED
TO HAVE HAVE SOME BLOOD WORK DONE, 95% OF THE
ER ROOM FULL WITH UN-DOCUMENTED PEOPLE SITTING THERE. PERHAPS THAT’S WHY. I DO BELEIVE I MENTIONED AMERICANS IN THAT LAST STATEMENT.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Apparently, zimzo, the people in the cities ARE different. There is neglect in the cities — self neglect, and neglect of their children. Are not the mayors, council members, and school board members also residents of those cities? Do not the city schools get far more money per pupil than the suburbs do? Are the city politicians more corrupt? Who holds those politicians responsible for their corruption?
January 20th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Jacob, you didn’t offer an alternative explanation as to why the U.S. is so far behind other industrialized countries when it comes to health care. All you did was call me a “socialist” and a “dolt.” And you wonder why I don’t bother to respond to you sometimes.
Marjorie, how do you know that 95% of the people in the ER were undocumented? Did you ask for their papers?
Jack, you still avoided answering the question I asked: What did you see when you looked at the “native population of D.C. and the rural south.” You must really be embarrassed by what your statement revealed about you.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
zimzo:
how can you tell the difference between a
cat and a dog, you just know by looking.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
I see people who neglect themselves and their children.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
If you right-wing redneck assholes even spent 20% of your time solving problems as you do belly-aching about people different then yourselves, then maybe the U.S. could stop being a third-world country in so many areas.
The fact is that we work harder than most countries, have more people in jail, have lousier health care, die earlier, know less, and are becoming second-rate technologically, and all you guys can do is blame it all on other people.
Try solving problems instead of bitching. And giving everyone guns and kicking out 12 million people isn’t going to do it.
You just sicken me.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Hey Sanity:
So called red neck assholes are doing something, they make it known the issues, AND WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT WITHOUT GIVING AWAY OUR COUNTRY.
ALL those demo’s and liberals talk big and in circles…..argue and agrue but never come up with a solid plan, if they did we would not be in this situation……
remember it was the democrats and liberals who gave amnesty in the first wave, now we have a larger problem because of it.
So Sanity, go BITCH someone else out.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Well, inSanity, if people knew the difference between “THEN” and “THAN,” and knew that along with our higher incarceration rate comes lower violent crime rates….
Yes, I do blame you for your ignorance.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
This may be the most entertaining and enlightening thread in the history of Novatownhall. Marjorie informs us of her magical ability to assess the the immigration status of someone jes by lookin’ at ‘em. Jacob is so exasperated by being confronted by actual facts that he is reduced to namecalling. I know you are Jacob, but what am I? Jack is so ashamed at being confronted about his prejudices that he can only dance around what he really meant when he said, “What do you see?” when you look at the population of D.C. and the rural south. Of course, he wasn’t referring to race at all. So what do you see, then, Jack? Dead people? By the way, pointing out typos does not automatically win you an argument.
All that we’re missing is for Joe to come on the thread and tell us we should ignore everything Marjorie, Jack and Jacob say because he can personally vouch for their character.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
And here I thought that Marjorie was a LADY!!!
January 21st, 2008 at 4:11 am
Marjorie:
The decent thing to do would be apologize for the extremely ignorant comment.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:29 am
…if what Marjorie was referring to was a hospital ER full of non-English speaking people or, perhaps, people who appeared to be of a Latino background, she would be on pretty solid ground in NOVA: The Fairfax county study last year or the year before found nearly 80% of immigrants from Mexico or Latin America were here illegally. One might expect the same percentage to hold true in Loudoun - but in any case, her supposition was more likely accurate than not.
This has been enlightening, I will admit. Once again we see Zimzo run down the country that has provided him the freedom to be a parlor-leftist.
January 21st, 2008 at 8:09 am
zimzo said:
January 20th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
This may be the most entertaining and enlightening thread in the history of Novatownhall. Marjorie informs us of her magical ability to assess the the immigration status of someone jes by lookin’ at ‘em. Jacob is so exasperated by being confronted by actual facts that he is reduced to namecalling. I know you are Jacob, but what am I? Jack is so ashamed at being confronted about his prejudices that he can only dance around what he really meant when he said, “What do you see?” when you look at the population of D.C. and the rural south. Of course, he wasn’t referring to race at all. So what do you see, then, Jack? Dead people? By the way, pointing out typos does not automatically win you an argument.
All that we’re missing is for Joe to come on the thread and tell us we should ignore everything Marjorie, Jack and Jacob say because he can personally vouch for their character.
POOR ZIMZO:
YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE EVASIVE AND COMBATIVE
AT THE SAME TIME, A TRUE LEFT WING LIBERAL I THINK, BUT KEEP THIS IN MIND:
“THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS RIGHT”
LOVISA, KEEP IN MIND I WAS USING WORDING FROM
SANITY.
TO BILLY, WHAT COMMENT?
AND TO JOE: THANK YOU
January 21st, 2008 at 9:07 am
zimzo,
LOL
“Jacob, you didn’t offer an alternative explanation as to why the U.S. is so far behind other industrialized countries when it comes to health care. All you did was call me a “socialist” and a “dolt.” And you wonder why I don’t bother to respond to you sometime”
I sent out a few questions earlier, you answer sarcastically without answering and when I return the favor you write the above. zimzoland is a strange place dude. I was looking for a polite if perforce sharp conversation on the matter and you screwed it up right out of the box. We’ll try again in a few weeks.
January 21st, 2008 at 9:23 am
How amusing — zimzo accusing others of not answering questions! C’mon, zimzo, why are the people in the inner cities and in the rural South incapable of taking care of themselves?
As I have said many times before, zimzo, it is CULTURE, not RACE.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
zimzo,
I don’t know about the rural south (pretty mixed as far as race goes) but D.C. is predominately negro. And oh so many problems came about when they had to have “home rule”. Now, Walter Washington didn’t do much harm, even a little good. But after that it was all down hill. Crime and corruption within the government. Suppressing the citizenry instead of prospering. There is such a mess that even a well-intentioned (and non-liberal socialist) governing body would take many years to get it on the right track. And they want representation? If they can’t take care of their own house, why would we want them to have a say-so in taking care of ours?
So there it is, zimzo. D.C. is full of people. And those people are predominately negro. And corrupt. And socialistict.
January 21st, 2008 at 4:18 pm
So, Joe, are you saying that if you see a person in Northern Virginia (or is it just Fairfax?) and he/she looks like an immigrant, and he/she looks Hispanic, it’s safe to assume that he/she is an illegal alien? Just want to completely understand your position.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Billy,
what part of the math is confusing to you. Given the numbers Joe quoted, its a good bet the given immigrant is illegal. If you have different numbers, lets here it.
January 21st, 2008 at 5:57 pm
This is fun to watch.
Zimzo has that rare ability to make my brain itch.
Jacob: You used the word Logic and Zimzo in the same sentence. Stop it. It cannot happen.
Zimzo: Take off the Che t-shirt, move out of your mothers basemant and get a job. Read the federalist papers and the constitution in that order. Then come back for a few sessions of Zimzo re-education. Jack, Joe, Activist and I will be quizzing you on all of the constitutional amendments, so study. Laura V. will be teaching a class on how to ID illegals living in West Virginia. I must warn you there will a drug test so, leave the spleefers in Billys locker at school.
On a more serious note:
After reviewing this thread it is obvious where the train went off the tracks. Jack asked the 64,000 question to Zimzo #34 Neglect by Whom. Jack having history on his side probably knew he was never going to get a straight response from Zimzo. You see that would force Zimzo to admit that those responsible for the neglect and poverty he correctly noted was the responsibility of the liberal wing of the Democrat party. You see liberal Democrats have been in charge of every aspect of life in the District of Columbia since the inception of Home Rule. The District of Columbia is one the most corrupt, incompetent, intellectually challenged cities in America second only to new Orleans, Baltimore and Detroit. What do all of these cities have in common ? They are the products of Lyndon Johnsons great society. These are the quintessential liberal urban onclaves going from one failed liberal administration to another. These are the products of left leaning, collectivist public policy. This is what happens when the left side of one political party exercises absolute power for 40 plus years without the least bit of competition.
As previously noted this about culture not race.
I might add it is also about the complete failure of ideas on the part of liberal Democrats and the absolute ignorance as to the workings of the free market.
January 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 am
Joe:
It’s nice that you’re a libertarian when it comes to free speech. That fact should make you all the more free to say, simply and plainly, that comments such as the HEs are blatantly bigoted. No one said anything about censorship.
Again, let me point out that it was I, not Zimzo, who called HE out on his comment. Yet in the comments that followed, the discussion has shifted to Zimzo and his ability to “see bigots behind every tree.” This is a diversion. This is making a mountain out of a moll hill. The simple fact is that HE made an overtly bigoted comment, and the conservatives here have categorically failed to distance themselves from his sentiments. Why is that, Joe? Why are so many free speech libertarians afraid to call a spade a spade? Why is the “take responsibility for your actions” crowd so eager to make excuses all of a sudden?
I’m not going to bother responding to your critique of American liberalsim. I’ll just say that you managed to produce a rather poor caricature of the truth. I see a lengthy anti-liberal diatribe. I see excuse-making on HEs behalf. I don’t see very much in the way of genuine honesty.
You say, “deal with it” Well, we can deal with it, and we are dealing with it. ..but the best way to do that isn’t to make excuses for ignorant, bigoted comments, but to acknowledge what they are and move on.
Marjorie:
“95% OF THE ER ROOM FULL WITH UN-DOCUMENTED PEOPLE SITTING THERE.”
I thought you were legally blind.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:39 am
I gave my reaction to H.E.’s comment, how it struck me after I read it, which is different than how it struck you. As usual I tried to give the context or assumptions that underlied that opinion.
It’s not to say I believe there is no such thing as bigoted speech. I’ve known Klan members - this is years ago - bikers, serious rednecks, northeastern white ethnics a generation or two removed from any sympathy for the civil rights movement. I’ve heard bigoted speech which truly reflects “unreasoned antipathy to a racial or ethnic group.”
What I have heard from H.E., even that last comment, does not fit that pattern in my view. You are allowed to have a different opinion. But as I said, at this point the matter would only continue to hold the faintest interest for me if H.E. were to clarify the reason for using such language.
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:36 am
Billy said:
Marjorie:
“95% OF THE ER ROOM FULL WITH UN-DOCUMENTED PEOPLE SITTING THERE.”
I thought you were legally blind.
Billy, look at it this way
People with 20/20 vision still cannot see what’s in their face, it’s called social blindness
January 22nd, 2008 at 9:37 am
Marjorie,
Puft is the one that made the last comment on being blind-not Billy.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS, MY BAD
SORRY BILLY
READ AGAIN PUFT
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:39 am
Joe, of course HE’s upset; HEs under the impression that we’re being invaded by disease ridden zombies! …and your excuse making isn’t doing anything to help Him be more well informed.
it’s too bad that you’re only able to recognize bigotry in it’s extreme form. If HE isn’t wearing a white hood and marching around Jena LA on MLK day than his bigotry is just some specter haunting the liberal psyche? Please.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:50 am
No, it’s much simpler than that, Puft, and I think we have been through this before: The problem is with the ILLEGAL aliens coming over - that is whom the harsh speech is targeted at. They are the ones I am giving H.E. a pass on speaking rudely about. I have not heard H.E. make any derogatory remarks about an ethnic group here, and as I said, both Manassas and Sterling have had large Latino populations for many years. The problem is with those who have crashed our gates.
I am completely open to the idea that H.E. could be utterly mistaken about vaccination rates or whatever (and frankly, I am not inclined to keep discussing the guy), and since I don’t know him or her I could be off base. All I am saying is the way the remark struck me was not “oh goodness, what a bigoted thing to say!”
But I will say that “specters haunting the liberal psyche” is a concept I could run with if I had the time.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:18 am
So it’s OK to make bigoted remarks about people HE perceives as illegal immigrants, which according to you are practically all Latinos in northern Virginia based on some dubious study that you think you heard once but can’t give us a link to?
Sorry, Joe but that sounds a lot like people who used to make bigoted remarks about black people where we grew up and claimed that they weren’t referring to all black people because they loved Sammy Davis Jr. and Sidney Poitier so that meant they weren’t prejudiced.
You don’t have to wear a white hood to be a bigot, Joe, and I’m surprised you don’t seem to know that.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Takes one to know one, Zimzo. You’ve made that abundantly clear. Please feel free to continue to educate all of us about the nuances of bigotry and racism.
January 23rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
zimzo,
Have you ever looked on the other side of the fence? Ask your latino or negro buddies about hate and bigotry. I have lived around large populations of both in different areas of the U.S. while growing up. For the most part, they weren’t interested in being your friend, they wanted something from you. They promoted bigotry and hate. Ask Sharptin or Jackson or any of their ilk. They’ll show you.
The next time you have a showing of “I AM NOW GOING TO WALK ON WATER” make sure you give me notice. I want to see what someone who is perfect (not) looks like.
January 23rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
The point, Joe, is to distract from the topic at hand, illegal immigration, by screaming “racist!” and “bigot!” whenever someone opposes illegal immigration.
The same tactic is used when discussing crime, gun control, public schools, etc. When the facts do not support their warped views, they scream “racist!”
January 23rd, 2008 at 1:55 pm
“It takes one to know one,” Joe? So you’ve pretty much descended to the level of schoolyard taunts. What does that even mean?
ACTivist, thanks for proving my point. Claiming that entire races or ethnic groups are not “interested in being your friend, they wanted something from you” is a perfect example of bigotry, though I’m sure Joe will defend your repugnant remarks. I would guess that the fact that certain individuals didn’t want to be your friend has more to do with you than it does with them.
Jack, claiming that someone is “screaming “racist!” and “bigot!” whenever someone opposes illegal immigration” is itself a way of distracting from the topic at hand. I and many others have made numerous arguments against your positions and pointed out numerous factual inaccuracies. We have also called you on rhetoric that sounds bigoted when you have used rhetoric that sounds bigoted. If you don’t want to be called on it, don’t use words like “raghead” or “whop” or “faggot,” depict immigrants inaccurately as disease ridden or prone to criminality when the facts don’t back you up or generally characterize entire races and ethnic groups as having certain negative characteristics.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
zimzo,
Your comment 79 to me is a perfect example of bigotry? That’s absured and so are you. Where do you find these invisible statements? Like I told you before, zimzo, you are warped.
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Joe, I guess I’m just disappointed in how disingenuous you’ve been lately. Insisting that HE’s comment isn’t bigoted is akin to insisting that 2+2=5. Does 2+2=5 Joe?
“When the facts do not support their warped views, they scream “racist!””
this from the guy who’s done several posts on blacks being less intelligent than whites on average. This from the guy who brings up “Hymietown” every chance he gets. Are you joking?
Jack, this isn’t a distraction from the discussion, it’s a central part of it. Your camp is targeting a group of people, blaming them for all sorts of social problems, and is apparently comfortable with using demeaning, dehumanizing language against them. Your movement needs to make a sincere effort to show that there’s no ingrained bigotry underlying it’s attitudes. This would have been a good opportunity for you to do that, but you missed it. Which makes me think that you wouldn’t be able to recognize a bigot if he hit you over the head with a burning cross. Do you really see comments such as HE’s as perfectly acceptable?
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
“What does that even mean?”
It means that your ingrained bigoted viewpoints make you especially sensitive to what you perceive to be bigotry everywhere.
It’s related somewhat to the “reformed smoker” syndrome - but don’t plunge too deeply into self-analysis. There is already way too much of that in today’s society.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Puft, I guess I am disappointed that you are more concerned with the rantings of citizens than with the illegal aliens.
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:53 pm
the standing question is, are you guys really concerned about illegal aliens, or something else? I tend to assume that you for one are more or less sincere, if not a bit misguided. But when things like HEs comment get said, and you and others rush to defend him, it raises some questions. It’s not the “Rantings of citizens,” but the underlying sentiments that those rantings seem to expose that concerns me. Apparently you aren’t prepared to explore the issue, and would rather write it off to liberal overactive imaginations.
January 23rd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
You goofball!! I did NOT “rush to defend him” - I ignored the remark until you and Tonto over there had clamored so desperately for someone, ANYONE to respond to H.E.’s remark that out of pure pity I did so. I said I would not have said what H.E. said. Jeez, you guys are exasperating sometimes.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I see. So the fact that you had to be dragged kicking and screaming to pay attention to a bigoted statement on your blog, which you not only refused to distance yourself from, but you actually defended and then proceeded to personally attack those who disagreed with your characterization of his statement as nothing much to worry about, that you think is supposed to make us happy? Well, here’s some news, Joe, it’s not about us, it’s about how you want your cause to be perceived by the rest of the world. Your great reluctance to distance yourself from bigoted remarks and your knee-jerk response to defend them speaks volumes about your priorities.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
“…you think is supposed to make us happy?”
NO no no no no no no! Oh my, lord have mercy on the mariner, whatever gave you that idea?
No, my plaintive, beseeching compadre, I have no intention whatsoever of making you “happy” and if I ever do so believe me it will be in spite of myself.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“95% OF THE ER ROOM FULL WITH UN-DOCUMENTED PEOPLE SITTING THERE.”
Since this statement has bothered a lot of you I will rephrase the statement:
As follows: At major hospitals across the nation a cultural event is happening in the ER’s. The latino barrio has named
All hospitals to be a major meeting place to socialize and receive Free products and information.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Marshmallow,
What do you want? You asked me and others to defend or attack H.E.’s comment. OK. Would you like to be asked to defend zimzo lamer statements? Or inSanity’s bile. I am not interested. If it looks bigoted to you, state why. If I disagree enough to contest your point I will; but explain the why you see it as you do. I am tired of dealing with this line of nonsense.
January 23rd, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Zimzo:
Here is a thought- Maybe we don’t give a shit what you as the elected represenative for the rest of the world thinks.
… Joe, its not about us, its about how YOU want your cause to be perceived by the rest of the world. Liberal arrogance at its best. Lib speak for let me tell you mister. I and others need to perceive your message in a certain light, with just the right background using language and an attitude that we can condone.
What a load of crap, take your enlightened perceptions and stick em in your ear. I for one will not spend a second of my precious time on earth packaging tailoring my thoughts for your consumption. Go soak your head.
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:41 pm
lighten up, Jacob, it was MLK weekend.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Marshmallow,
LOL!
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Good point Mr. Stone. Where did anyone get the idea I gave a rat’s patoutie how “my” cause is perceived by the rest of the world? As far as I can tell, “the rest of the world” isn’t doing me any favors nor doing anything to help solve our problem here. Insofar as Zimzo represents the rest of the world, I hope I am irritating them to no end.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Joe, Greg,
zimzo is just misunderstood. Cant you feel his pain. Especially after Greg stuck whatever it was in his ear. Show some sympathy, zimzo probably got beat up a lot growing up.
January 24th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I think he still gets smacked around by his grandmother: “Quit yer whining you sanctimonious sissy and grow a pair!” THWACK!
January 24th, 2008 at 7:56 am
So far, Joe, your argument has been “I know you are but what am I” followed by “I’m rubber, you’re glue, everything I say bounces off me and sticks to you” and now has devolved into calling me a sissy. I think earlier you also called me a faggot. I can’t wait to see what playground taunt you’ll come up with next.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I fear I have trampled upon the nobility which is Zimzo.
January 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Joe,
Thats a crime against all that is great and noble!!
POlease, please continue!
January 24th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Let’s see. I’m rubber, your glue. How the world perceives your cause. Knee-jerk reaction. Suppose to make us happy. Playing in sand-boxes.
Either zimzo IS David WHINEtraub or is getting his ammunition from the Farce. IF i’m wrong then that means that there really IS a liberal playbook out there!
January 24th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
“the standing question is, are you guys really concerned about illegal aliens, or something else?” — Puffalump
A fair question, puffalump. For my part, I am concerned about illegal immigration for a variety of reasons. Those reasons include the potential for terrorists to come in the same way, the potential for them to bring in diseases, the lowering of the wages of unskilled labor, and their overwhelming our emergency care system.
I will state categorically and unequivocally that we need to increase the quotas for LEGAL immigration. However, there must be consequences for entering this country illegally, and for overstaying one’s visa. The logical consequence is deportation.
Amnesty is unfair to those who have been waiting to enter legally, and have played by the rules.
————————————————
>>“When the facts do not support their warped
>>views, they scream “racist!””
>>
>>this from the guy who’s done several posts
>>on blacks being less intelligent than whites >>on average.
Which theory I disagreed with, if you recall.
>>This from the guy who brings up “Hymietown”
>>every chance he gets. Are you joking?
The Rev. Jackson won 15 Democrat primaries and caucuses in 1988. That’s hardly out of the mainstream of the Democrat Party.
>>Jack, this isn’t a distraction from the
>>discussion, it’s a central part of it. Your
>>camp is targeting a group of people, blaming
>>them for all sorts of social problems, and is
>>apparently comfortable with using demeaning,
>>dehumanizing language against them.
There you are wrong. We are not blaming Hispanics or Blacks or Jews, but those who have broken the law. They have distinguished themselves by what they have done, not by their ethnicity. It is YOUR side that tries to make it a race issue, so you can appeal to emotion, not reason, because you do not have reason on your side.
>>Your movement needs to make a sincere effort
>>to show that there’s no ingrained bigotry
>>underlying it’s attitudes.
Only because YOU have tried to change the issue from illegal immigration to race. You make allegations of racism, and then say we have to spend time defending ourselves against these accusations, rather than focus on the issue — illegal immigration.
>>This would have been a good opportunity for
>>you to do that, but you missed it. Which
>>makes me think that you wouldn’t be able to
>>recognize a bigot if he hit you over the head
>>with a burning cross.
Nonsense, we all know that Robert KKK Bird is a racist.
>>Do you really see comments such as H.E.’s as
>>perfectly acceptable?
Let me review H.E.’s comment:
>>Yeah, let a Illegal Alien from a Third World
>>Country kiss and slobber all over your baby
>>and children while babysitting.
I must confess to kissing and slobbering all over babies myself. As Jacob — he has very cute babies. (Fortunately, they take after his wife.)
>>People who hire Illegals to babysit their
>>children should be charged with Child
>>Endangerment. Any parent who would let
>>someone from a Third World Country who
>>crawled over the border in the middle of the
>>night who they have no idea who that person
>>is and no way to check them out.
OK — without the fence, they do not have to crawl, but they do still come in the middle of the night. Still, there is no way to do a background check, is there?
>>And almost everyone from these third world
>>countries has never had a shot in their life
>>in addition to being exposed to or carry some
>>of the worst diseases in the world.
Well, we do know that TB is a problem in Mexico (http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/id/tuberculosis/countries/lac/mexico_profile.html), as are other diseases: http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/destinationMexico.aspx If we can get the diseases going there, it stands to reason that they could be bringing them here.
>>Finally, most speak no English and have no
>>idea what to do in case of a emergency.
Quite true. If your child swallows some poison, you would want his caregiver to be reasonably conversant in English to deal call Poison Control and follow their directions.
So, aside from the crawling bit, no, I don’t have a problem with H.E.’s comment. In fact, H.E. does not mention race at all. There are health and linguistic issues, which is why au pairs have to have the proper medical examinations and be reasonably fluent in English.
It seems to me that you have one hammer, “RACIST,” so everything looks like racism to you.
January 24th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
JACK,
The term racist is not used here in the blog:
I believe that “cultural” differences are the issue
Let me take a moment and clarify some of my thoughts.
I am not against the foreigner who comes into the United States Legally. Period.
What I am angry about is all the expired visa holders, un-documented immigrants who cross our borders via the back door,without going though the proper channels. I get angry at all the Americans who want to give these people a free ride and the silver platter.
American’s forget that we would receive diddly squat in their country. In fact we would be asked to leave, be put on a plane or put in jail for coming into their country without proper documentation or having the visa expire and remaining there.
We have laws that need to be enforced. Not changed to fit these people.
Wake up, it’s yours and my country at stake, and I for one will fight to keep it. Why won’t you.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
I agree. In fact, my eldest daughter’s godmother is an immigrant.