Do You Want A Hotel Right Next To Your Kids’ School?
May 1st, 2008 by joe
This is the question the parents and community around St. James Catholic School in Falls Church are presently dealing with. There is a petition among local residents who want to stop the Hilton from developing this project.
Someone with an interest in the issue e-mailed me with the following:
The parents are concerned that with the development being built so close, during the initial construction phase, it’s going to be very loud and disruptive for the kids in class, and potentially there’s going to be a lot of dust and other stuff that could affect air quality in the immediate area.
On a long-term basis, they’re concerned about increased traffic around the school (with all the attendant risks to pedestrians), and the possibility of the hotel attracting prostitution and drugs.
Here are some recent news stories on the controversy:
Video 1 on St James Catholic School
Video 2 on St James Catholic School
Video 3 on St James Catholic School
More news stories and the petition at Too Conservative.
This entry was posted on Thursday, May 1st, 2008 at 11:38 pm and is filed under religion, trade. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
I can’t think of a worse idea. Well, I could, but this is pretty bad. What are they thinking?
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
I’m more in line with the actual comments posted at Too Conservative.
I grew up in a much, much rougher place than Falls Church and the biggest threat to our security as kids was a chain burger joint with arches that was next to our junior high school. (It was the hang out for the drug dealers, prostitutes, gangs. We had plenty of those unpleasant people.)
I doubt a Hilton in Falls Church would attract drug dealers and prostitutes to menace the children. I lived in a neighborhood with plenty of children near a Marriott and an extended stay executive apartment they managed in Arlington. No problems there. They were good neighbors. The only arrests for drugs and prostitution I recall were at a seedy hotel that used to have hourly rates (since cleaned up).
However, the concerns about construction noise and dust are legitimate enough that the construction site logisticsneed to be seriously restricted if a hotel is to be built at all.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:16 am
This is an outrage. I am also outraged that there was no mention of Law Day on your blog. Is CNN the only media outlet that even cares?
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:34 am
Talk about coddling rich kids! Noise and dust; possible prostitution and drug use; This is a HILTON hotel for pete’s sake. How much traffic would there be at the time the kids come to and leave school? What’s in the space at present where the hotel is planned? Must be something more desirable than a first-rate hotel evidently.
NIMBY at its worst!
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
Chatter over at tooconservative about this, some of which shows little understanding of reality.
Someone from St. James claims it is a conflict of interest for the City Attorney to represent the Zoning Board–wrong. That’s who their lawyer IS, as a municipal body.
Claims rezoning, variances or exceptions are “building outside the zoning code”–wrong. All those things are delineated within code, with a process to be followed.
Hello? Falls Church is a CITY. That means it will face URBAN building issues.
If people want to get upset about change in that city, where the heck were they 25 or 30 years ago when the center of town ripped out all of the old municipal buildings that had been there since the 19th century? The old stone bank, and everything else at the intersection of Washington and Broad?
Don’t we have enough to worry about out here, not to mention the fact it will look pretty damned stupid to insert into this battle (unless one is a member of the parish)?
This is like the moonbats who sign petitions online about Loudoun because they read a broadside on a website in Colorado.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
NIMBY? That’s too easy. There’s another development project under way next door as well. It it certainly a shock, but not one parent spoke out against it. Give some consideration to the real issues as NIMBY is an easy brushoff. Est. 80,000 elementary schools in the country. Want to guess how many have hotels next to them? There must be a good reason.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:24 am
As a middle grounder (have not watched the video clips, can’t at work) I see both the NIMBY and legitimate concerns.
Lovisa, not sure if you have been down this piece of Route 7 in Falls Church before, but from what I recall, it is a predominantly commercial area. It is flanked by residential streets. I also don’t know if the property in question was rezoned for this specific application, but the petition reads that it is a “departure from city plans.”
As for the prositution/drug/crime concerns, I’d have to research the current stats, but this area is kinda creepy and it always has been. I also don’t know how accurate the stmt that hotel parking lots attract crime is, but they may well.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:31 am
What is the other development project underway next door that no parent spoke out against? As “surbanite” says: Fall’s Church is a city. Kids living there should get used to urban living, the earlier, the better.
I have NO idea of how many elem. schols have hotels next to them. Do you? I know that Herndon Middle School has a so called Resident Hotel very close which has not, as far as I know, caused any problems.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:41 am
I have not been in that part of Falls Church in a long time, but the point about this being the sort of thing you should expect in an urban environment is a good one - if it is in act an urban environment.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
This area of Falls Church is very commercial, and has been for quite some time. Poor location for a school imho.
Is there a remote chance that the school might be thinking that if we squawk loud enough, Hilton will buy us out and we can move ?
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Good Point Dan, I can’t help but think the school is sick of dealing with teh logistics of being in the middle of commercial Falls Church but can’t afford to move in close proximity.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
The parish is historic–been there longer than most of the stuff around it. St. Johns in McLean was a mission church established by St. James around the time of WW I.
They have their own parish cemetery over at West Street and Fowler–some of the graves go back to the 1800s, and most of the names on them can still be seen in local street names and businesses there.
Look at the German Church down in Chinatown in NW DC. Also historic, but that neighborhood has changed a LOT around that parish over the years. It is interesting to get off the subway in view of the big Chinese gate, walk down the street and see all the commemorative stained glass at that old stone church donated by prominent neighborhood Germans long long ago!
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 am
Thanks for the info Suburbanite, I did not know if the school was even attached to the Parish, but I could have ASSumed, huh?
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
“Poor location for a school imho.”
The School has been in it’s current location for 102 years!
St James, the Parish and the School have been valuable & vibrant members of the Falls Church community for over 100 years. That’s way before the era of zoning for Residential, Transitional and Business land uses. Now in 2008 the City of Falls Church is on the verge of allowing full Business development within 20 feet of the St James school property that is used for recess. This just shows that over the years; planning and zoning have sold St James out right up until their door step with no buffer of any kind.
Now a stand must be made by the City Council that ensures the existing zoning of the middle part of Oak Street off of Broad stays “Transitional”. There is no legal justification for granting the Young Group with a change of zoning to B-1 for this property. In addition the special exception for height should be denied as this development does not foster the safety of our community. If a 6 story hotel goes in overshadowing St James playground, the guests of the Hilton Garden Inn will be unfamiliar of the surrounding neighborhood while driving and will create an increased danger to our 600 school children on a daily basis.
Now it’s time for the City Council to recognize as he did that this proposed development is a mistake. They need to side with the community gem that has been a bedrock for generations over the wants of a developer that only cares about their own bottom line.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:59 am
Never thought of the “buy out” scenario. The project is not a Hilton hotel. It’s a franchise where Hilton has no financial or operational investment. If they don’t pay the fees – Hilton Franchise pulls the shingle off the door. So the project is not owned by Hilton in any capacity.
The school has been in the same location for 102 years and has probably been through more change than most other elementary/mid schools.
The project next door will be a retail post office (no postal jokes…) and Class-B commercial office space.
Outside of the student safety concern, which by the way does take a while to get your arms around, if you were to drive by the site and think as a business traveler, I can’t imagine someone wanting to stay for the price and inconvenience. Maybe there are plans to build a Class-A commercial structure behind it – no can’t do that, that’s single family residential there. It’s next to nothing, well except a school. I traveled for years and wouldn’t have considered staying if I had business in DC, Arlington, or Tysons.
The safety and traffic is concerning yes, but the location is really baffling.
Oh yea - the answer to the 80,000 question is: I don’t know. Found 1, so far, in Chicago inner-city. I’m sure there are more - inquires are out to 30 states - 18 have replied with a zero or we don’t track. It is less than 1%, which would be 8000.I pretty much have seen it all as I went through the Public School System in PG County, MD. There are no hotels next to elem. schools there.
There are so many undesirable lots around the City, you would think that would be an opportunity for revitalization. I don’t know…it just doesn’t make sense.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Church has been there forever. It is not s seedy part of the city; Pimmit Hills on one end or 7 Corners on the other-now that is seedy. Urban? You kidding? About as urban as Sterling Park. No, as Leesburg. No, Middleburg. Urban?
The city has allowed developement to infect the core corridor for sometime now. They want to “be somebody”. Same old song. Won’t get a grip on things until it’s too late and they can’t “back-up”. Prostitution, drugs, Pagans and Chinese “kitty” meat is what Falls Church is known for.
Someone needs to go and ask what Don Beyer thinks about all this. Remember him? Falls Church business owner, city father and liberal ex Lt. Governor?
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
With that description my question now is (to my self) is that where I want my children going to school? I’ve answered it yes, for the time being, and that’s why we need to take a stand on their safety and well being. It’s our job to do that as others have shown that it really doesn’t matter.
Good suggestion on Don Beyer! Thanks
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:27 pm
History Lesson,
Hmm, sounds like you are saying that because this school has been there for 102 years, this grandfathering prevents Falls Church from doing what it perceives as improvements to this area that happen to be near the school. Many private schools buy the adjacent property as a buffer just to prevent this sort of thing.
“The parents are concerned that with the development being built so close, during the initial construction phase, it’s going to be very loud and disruptive for the kids in class, and potentially there’s going to be a lot of dust and other stuff that could affect air quality in the immediate area. On a long-term basis, they’re concerned about increased traffic around the school (with all the attendant risks to pedestrians),”
The above is true if it were residential construction, even another church or temple. Smells like NIMBYism to me.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
“History lesson”, Don Beyer is part of the commercial strip along Broad, right near the statue of the farmer slopping pigs.
Is the “playground” still mostly asphalt?
Watched the videos, which look as though somebody with a kid in school does PR/political activism for a living, since they were all news broadcasts of the same event.
Sorry, but the woman with the “drugs and prostitution” soundbyte seemed a bit over the top.
This is not a “stop it FROM being built”, it is a “stop the building already under way”.
How did the builder get structural steel in a foundation without some permitting?
And how do the parents think it will improve the credibility of their position to have people from somewhere else sign on to their petition?
“Transitional” zoning? Oh boy.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Activist, Falls Church has some real history, most notably the Falls Church, so named because that’s where George Washington stopped for services on his way from Mt. Vernon to Great Falls to monitor the Patowmack Canal endeavor. Built by the same fellow who did Christ Church in Alexandria.
That said, Middleburg it surely is not. Much more commercial, much more dense, much less isolated, and it’s been a long time since there were horses in the city proper!
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Hmm, this post really has turned into an interesting history lesson. Thanks, guys, I did not know any of this stuff.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
If Hilton ( developer ) owns the land and the proposed use is within the zoning guidelines of the city then this is a non-issue. This sounds like parents who have enjoyed adjacent open space and now are bummed out that space is being developed. Well that is what property owners do, they develop their property in their best interest. Not in the interest of others.
Look at the bright side. Out of town Catholic travelers can now run next door to confession before hitting happy hour in the piano bar.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Joe, Sadly I think I used to “know” all this history but lost it somewhere. I went to HS in Falls Church and really enjoy VA history, so you’d think it would stick.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Yeah, I grew up in Alexandria and about all I could tell you is how to get to the Fish Market.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
(This is not a “stop it FROM being built”, it is a “stop the building already under way”.)
For suburbanite - The Hotel is proposed on 706 W Broad (currently an unused parking lot up the middle of that block), the hole in the ground already underway is 800 W Broad which will mixed use with a Post Office. Obviously the school is not anti development of any kind since there was no opporition to the construction already underway. We are objecting to the possiblity of a 6 story Hotel overshadowing our Playground. So Yes this is a “stop it FROM being built” effort.
(”If Hilton ( developer ) owns the land and the proposed use is within the zoning guidelines of the city then this is a non-issue”)
For G. Stone - The developer is Bob Young; president of the Jefferson Group and he is by no means playing “within” the zoning laws.
That’s the problem, he is asking for rezoning (Transitional to Business) and waivers (Building Height and Setback amongst others) even though the Hotel development is not welcomed by the neighboring historic Elementary school.
He has the right to use the land within the existing Zoning laws and we have every right to challenge his requests for rezoning and site use waivers.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Ahh, the Fish Market.. how I miss those 49 cent schooners during Skins games..
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Remember for the longest time they only sold one brand of draft beer - I think it was Schlitz.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Hey I guess I do know some history after all.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
In Video 1 there’s a woman named Tricia Paoletta speaking. Googled the name. She’s a partner with Harris Willshire Grannis LLP. Lawyers have a way of worming their way into everything, it seems.
So the building is already started and they are trying to stop it or have the builders cut off a story or two. Rather amazing!
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
49 cents was 49 cents, Schlitz or not..
My old Alexandria haunts were Fish Market, Portner’s, Shooter McGees.
Fav restaurant was Wayfarers..
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Joe:
It was Schafer. They were the only bar in Old Town that had Schafer on tap, they were probably the only bar in Virginia to even sell Schafer.
Schafer ! what the hell were they thinking.
Although,I may have had one or two.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I remember a bar on Main St. in Buffalo, 10 cent beer at 1pm, 20 cent beer at 2pm, so on until 5pm. The pool tables where a quarter. Can’t remember the name of the bar, but I know I can find it. They had a great juke box with 60’s tunes.
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Poster #25: Allowances for variances, waivers, special exceptions and so forth are written into code, or else they would never be allowed.
There are established guidelines that go beyond by right.
Whether it is approved or not depends to a certain degree on participation, very true, but if the allowances they’re seeking have precedent, are mitigated, and fall within guidelines for the alternatives, then they may have a good case.
I don’t know if it improves your case to have people from outside the area pile on for the sake of piling on.
IS the playground still mostly asphalt?
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Hey, you old Alexandrites: Remember bluegrass at Ted’s Tiffany Tavern?
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
” don’t know if it improves your case to have people from outside the area pile on for the sake of piling on.”
It does if your goal is a buyout…
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Don’t remember Teds’ , Disco was the thing when I lived in Alex.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Lovisa said:
“So the building is already started and they are trying to stop it or have the builders cut off a story or two. Rather amazing!”
NO, NO, NO the Hotel has not been Approved or Started. The construction that has been started is developed by the same guy but has nothing to do with a Hotel. It is a mixed use building on the same block as St. James and is being constructed with no objection from St. James.
The Hotel is intended to be across Oak St. and will have a parking lot that exits directly across from the St. James parking lot which is not allowed without rezoning.
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Sorry, evidently I misread #25.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Schaeffer! Yes, when you are having more than one, as we undoubtedly always were. I love this history stuff.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:12 am
Disco Dan, huh? Hopefully this does not offend.
Schaeffer, Schlitz, Hamm’s, Iron City, and National Beer (Natty Bo, baby, I remember the slogan/song on the can, anyone else?) were all still around in the 80’s.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:46 am
So the construction shown on the adjoining property is approved by the parents, and what is protested is on the other side of it?
Unfortunately, there may be your buffer.
Urban-style.
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
This has become an issue of a small independent city that used years of windfall tax money from escalating home values, spent it ALL on new services and local government growth and is now doing anything possible to sustain those decisions at any cost. Falls Church in the past year even tried to sue Fairfax County for infringing on water services that are in Fairfax County. If this wasn’t an act of desperation to protect water revenues – what is?
So the effect of parents protecting their children has become fallout of a little government trying to sustain itself by portraying their efforts as wanting to play with the big boys. They have and continue to overlook all facts if there’s promised tax revenue.
The facts are Falls Church City doesn’t know how to or want to reduce programs that only exist because of bad spending decisions. These are the facts. Check out historical data from the past 7 years.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:51 pm
What was the name of the German Bar across the street from the Fish Market ? Spent many a night there and can’t remember the name.
That happens when you at the bar long enough, you forget things.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:25 pm
G. - The Heidelburg
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:32 pm
That is it, the Heidelburg. That was a good bar.
At least one of us didn’t kill all of their brain cells drinking.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Cathymac,
“Disco Dan, huh? Hopefully this does not offend.”
It doesn’t, when in Rome as they say. It was that or the Texas Two Step. Hard to find a Stetson to fit my big head. The Jolly Ox at Seminary and 95 was THE place on the West End.
“Made In The Land of Pleasant Living” or something like that wasn’t it ? The best 80s beer was Masters. And we all had our share of Rolling Rock, stuff was like, what, $5 a case ?
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 pm
“protecting their children”
I must ask, protecting, or using ?
May 4th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Re 47.
Are you talking issues or use of your beer purchases?
May 4th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Question:
Can anyone suggest a nova traffic engineer or traffic specialist that might be interested in interpreting a traffic study?
May 4th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Schafer ! what the hell were they thinking.
Well, it has 2 ff’s and Joe got it right. And Cathymac is thinking of National Bohemian. Both these were better beer than Schlitz.
Alexandria was for pimps and dico ducks. I left there for Annandale or “Action City” as we liked to call it. Yes, Dan, you probably would have needed a Stetson hat or at least your upper teeth missing to hang out there. Shootings every weekend and girls that make you think of sheep. Ah, life was good!
May 5th, 2008 at 11:19 am
ACT,
Annandale, action city ? You must have been a regular at the Jack In The Box… Nothing else there but that and Duck’s.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
ACT - Yes, National Bohemian, it too used to be 5$ a case.
The Natty Boh song is:
National Beer
National Beer
You’ll love the taste of National Beer
And while I’m singing
I’m proud to say
It’s brewed on the shores
of Chesapeake Bay!
May 5th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Cathymac,
I never knew you could hold a tune. And it was brewed on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay why? Because they used oyster juice from shucking to give it that “special” flavor! HA!
May 5th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Dan, Dan, Dan! Behind the 3 Pigs was the Annandale Bar and Grill. Two words-Yee Hah! Enough said. If you snoozed, you loosed.
May 5th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Annandale Bar and Grill ?
What, did you go straight from Boy Scouts into AARP ?
May 5th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Big article in WashPo’s Metro today re this subject.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
NoVisa,
Which subject? The hotel or the bar and grill?
May 6th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Just one of those best kept secrets. Also went to the clubs around Culmore/7 Corners. Hey, I was never a duck. What can I say?
May 6th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
I was at the place in Culmore a couple of times, what was the name of that ?
Say what you want about ducks, the disco hens were mighty fine, 9 o’clock 10s..
May 8th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I had forgotten about the Fish Market… wow.
…seriously, this is a Hilton Garden Inn. This is a mid-rise, not a high rise. This is not a cheap-o flophouse where people pay for rooms by the hour (yuk).
What are the other possible uses for the site? Some could be far, far worse.
May 10th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
On the surface your Hilton argument is ok - although as a Hilton franchise the owner only buys the name for the shingle. Incidents don’t restrict themselves to the nearby motor lodge. Remember the issue here is risk to children for potential revenue.
Other uses that are far worse wouldn’t be considered because they don’t promise enough revenue. There are other comparable uses that would be a great draw for the city. However, they’re stuck on this hotel because the City Center anchor, the Marriot and Harris Teeter have backed out. Why you ask? The existing City Center plan doesn’t fit their model.
So putting a hotel next to a school would never be acceptable to the City Council if they weren’t staring down a double-barrel of missteps and misfortunes. Don’t exacerbate that problem by putting the kids in the cross hairs. It will only take one incident to one child to split this city at it core.
As everyone knows who lives here there are vicious and determined elements “in-the-house” that will say and do anything to advance their agenda. It’s becoming most alarming that the level of tolerance, not acceptance - tolerance, has risen on this by turning a deaf ear and blind eye on the culprits. I believe that tide is about to change.