Republican Party Of Virginia Convention Report, Shenanigans Unverified
Author | joe | Posted on | May 31, 2008 | 58 Comments
This is a quick and dirty report from today’s Republican Party of Virginia (RPV)Convention. I’ve got lots of video and photos but am likely to fall asleep in the middle of this post so a barrage of partially coherent text is the most I can deliver tonight.
[Bearing Drift has a semi-complete report of vote totals].
New Chair of the Republican Party of Virginia, Jeff Frederick!
The good news: Jeff Frederick trounced John Hager in the battle for RPV Chairman. Hager trotted out a long list of endorsements and short list of accomplishments and asked, basically, to be allowed to keep that ol’ sparkling positive momentum moving forward.
Frederick told the hard truth, that the Virginia GOP is on a serious losing streak, the public tide has long since turned against the party, and that a harsh reckoning was coming. We can make the change now, he said, or wait until we lose more elections and become a true minority party out in the wilderness, and then make the change. But the party is going to change one way or the other. He also said the very screwy events of yesterday, on which more later, would never occur again with him leading the RPV.
It was a pretty convincing speech, because no matter how many arrived intending to vote for Frederick, it was impossible to listen to his argument and not see immediately that there really was no other choice.
Because of the huge margin of defeat Hager apparently did not want the vote numbers released, and opted instead to nominate Frederick by acclamation. A friend of mine who stayed throughout the counting and saw many of the results said it appeared Frederick won at least 2/3 of the total votes. (Check the comments to this Virtucon post for final tallies for all the Districts in the Chairman race. Jeff Frederick indeed won convincingly.)
In the not-so-good-news department, I think a lot of people walked out of that Convention center thinking Bob Marshall had been robbed, the vote tally for nomination for the Senate seat was falsified, and that Jeff Frederick has just inherited a thugocracy. It was a very fishy chain of events.
Bob Marshall had a huge crowd of supporters and about double Jim Gilmore’s decibel level of cheering. His rousing speech reminded why we want a candidate who has formed his own positions and can articulate them masterfully.
First, as Blog Fu alludes to, the seating arrangements bespake the singular concept that “the Republican Party of Virginia is run by assholes.” The stage was at one end, with the districts seated in numerical order from the front of the room to the back. 1st District next to the stage, 11th District in the back of the room. Except that Gilmore’s and Hager’s home district, the 7th, was also right next to the stage. So the order of seating was 1st, 2nd, 7th, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th. Those of us in the 10th District were almost 50 yards from the stage. Ok, fine, so the Convention is slightly “weighted” toward two of the four candidates.
Then, here is how the vote tally process was conducted. All the ballots were issued and collected separately by each District chair, turned over to RPV staff who ran them through scanners under everyone’s watchful eyes, and then the straight numerical results were given back to the District chairs, who then had someone calculate by hand the “weighted” totals (different counties’ votes are worth different amounts). Here is the operation conducted by the 10th District guy doing the tallying:
This Gilmore – Hager supporter tallied the 10th District votes. This guy may have the wisdom of Solomon and ethics of Gandhi for all I know, but leaving him and all the other District talliers on an island to do all the calculations with no oversight or review seemed like a strange and overly loose protocal for choosing a U.S. Senate nominee.
I was going to make an abacus joke about this and rag on the low-tech nature of the process, but it’s not so much an abacus joke as a “ten thousand typing monkeys” joke. In this case the tallier, an obvious Gilmore supporter, was doing calculations in pen, running them through a calculator, scratching out results, starting over and redoing the operations. It took close to half an hour for him to come up with final numbers, and in the meantime many people stopped to look, incredulously. There was no oversight whatsoever, no opportunity for the other campaign to check the numbers, no independent authority verifying the numbers. This guy literally could have been pulling numbers out of thin air and no one would have been able to call him on it. The talliers CERTAINTLY could have made mistakes – which actually seems quite likely given the number of different calculation required. Someone asked 10th District Chairman Jim Rich about this extremely loose procedure and Rich replied that the fellow was Rich’s assistant who has done this many times, and that Rich trusts him. When the time came each District chair reported the numbers as unassailable gospel truth, and that was that.
When the Oscars are awarded each year, the vote tally is conducted by a third party and delivered to the awards ceremony under lock and key in the care of a company like Ernst and Young. If the RPV procedures were used, it would be the equivalent of the vote tally conducted and results delivered by Pixar Animation Studios.
So bear that in mind while considering how the vote reporting went. The Secretary came to the podium to call on each District chair to read their respective results, starting with the 1st District. They did so, until it came to the 7th District’s turn, and the chair announced “The 7th District will pass.” This elicited some vocal reactions from the audience, but the Secretary continued through the rest of the Districts, and then, at the very end, the 7th District chair read his results. The final tally gave Jim Gilmore a victory by 65.8 votes. The total was announced, Bill Bolling immediately called Bob Marshall to the podium to speak, and it was over.
A number of people, myself included, were dumbfounded that such a tiny margin of victory (65 out of 10,300 weighted votes) could be accepted so readily when the tallying process was so manifestly open to inaccuracies or, worse, manipulation. The 7th District talliers, a cynic might suggest, could have been keeping a running total, waited strategically until the very end, and then simply made up a vote total to ensure Gilmore of victory. There was no opportunity to challenge. I personally think it was a blunder on Bob Marshall’s part to not have asked for a roll call vote or other review of the ballots in the 7th District. I know that Bob Marshall is a stand up guy who would do the “honorable” thing for the greater good, and I am sure the Marshall campaign will never breathe a word about anything possibly untoward about the vote counting, but he left a lot of supporters from Loudoun County wondering “why was the RPV allowed to get away with that?” If Bob Marshall’s choice is to let it go, that’s fine. I’m a hothead; he clearly is not. But I hope he will at least give us another shot at getting him into the U.S. Senate.
I have video of much of the above and will post it in the next few days. I think it will demonstrate – especially when you see how the 7th District announced their vote totals – that this was a questionable series of events.
There were numerous reports that during yesterday’s Convention activities some more very questionable parliamentary moves (or, more accurately, “non-parliamentary moves”) took place, including Jim Rich getting Jo-Ann Chase bounced from the list of at large candidates to the Republican National Convention. These are just hearsay reports at this time and I hope to get more details, but today the rumors were swirling that RPV leadership was demonstrating that “a fix is in.” The final result in the Senate contest confirmed the rumors for many attendees. All in all, it seemed like a dirty affair.
Then, to top it off, the moment Bob Marshall left the stage after not quite conceding but announcing brightly that the task ahead is to “beat Mark Warner,” a very, very LOUD video promotion for Jim Gilmore was played, telling his life story and stretching over 10 minutes. This was annoying because everyone knew that the vote for RPV Chair still had to occur, so time was really starting to drag. But its annoyingness was nothing compared to Jim Gilmore following the video with a 20+ minute speech in which he did what Jim Gilmore does best, which is to deliver a litany of “conservative principle” cliches and tired phrases. Cherry on the sundae was a Ronald Reagan anectdote, reminding everyone that the types of folks who put the “lame” in “lame ass Republicans” were solidly in control of the Virginia GOP. I think Jim Gilmore and his “Let’s Pretend It’s 1999″ -themed campaign is going to get clobbered this fall. He definitely will not have a lot of the people at today’s Convention out working for him.
Jim Gilmore had something like 20 people give endorsements, “seconding” his nomination, which took forever, wasted our time, said nothing about his personal value but broadcasted loud and clear that business as usual is alive and well in the Virginia GOP. Every dog catcher in VA supports Jim! Yee Hah!
On a positive note, the asshats who WERE in charge of the RPV are no longer in charge. The second ballot of the day, in which Jeff Frederick triumphed overwhelmingly in the race for RPV Chair, may well turn out to be the more significant one. Someone observed that it seems quite incongruous that Frederick clobbered Hager and Marshall lost – when so many people had come with the express purpose of voting for both Frederick and Marshall. The insinuation was, they cheated on the Marshall ballots but could not cheat on both.
I honestly don’t know. But I do hope that having a good guy like Jeff Frederick leading the RPV will inspire some of the disaffected and newly cynical from the results of today’s Senate contest to get involved with the Virginia Republican Party and push the thugocracy aside. Jeff needs to do some housecleaning, and publicize it. With Jeff at the helm, there is real reason for hope, and maybe we can convince Bob Marshall to take another shot.
State Senator Ken Cuccinelli gave one of the best speeches I’ve ever seen Ken give in endorsing Bob Marshall for U.S. Senate. I hope to get the full audio and video posted soon. It can serve as a lasting reminder of why we need Bob Marshall in higher office.
UPDATE: Blog Fu weighs in on Bob Marshall’s future:
A year ago, Bob Marshall was a curious oddity in Virginia politics, a conservative leader who would rather have everyone hate him than compromise his principles. He is no longer an oddity. He is the voice of Virginia’s Republican future. When that realization sinks in within the compromise-on-anything Republican leadership of Virginia, this could cause a seismic shift in Republican politics, and completely transform the political landscape in Virginia.
It’s about time.
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58 Responses to “Republican Party Of Virginia Convention Report, Shenanigans Unverified”
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May 31st, 2008 @ 9:18 pm
The RPV made the rules, the RPV ran the Convention and the appearance of fraud was a product of the RPV as well.
Many folks in the general public do not realize that the State Board of Elections has no oversight; not even observer status at Party conventions. So, no recount, no do-overs.
Bob Marshall was MAYBE robbed, but we are Republicans, not the Party of the sore loser poster child, Al Gore. But, our Party is about to be set on a new and exciting course.
Given how Jeff Frederick and Bob Marshall were treated with such blatant contempt by the RPV staff prior to and during the Convention, Jeff Frederick should clean house. Every single position should be vacated, and a new staff who are committed to supporting Jeff’s winning strategy, should be selected from the top talent derived from a nationwide search.
Jeff will be building the GOP Twenty-First Century team, so this new staff will have to be tech-savvy, agile, well mannered and always fair to anyone competing for elected office.
The very first step that must be made in the direction of positive change, has been made by electing Jeff Frederick as Chairman. I would have to say that the next step is for all of the Virginia GOP Committee members to get behind Jeff Frederick’s plan and to do all that can be done to help. So, fellow Republicans, ask not what the Party can do for you, ask what you can do for our Party!
May 31st, 2008 @ 9:43 pm
Great summation! For more pictures and my de-brief:
http://rappahannockred.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/gilmore-wins-va-gop-senate-convention-attendance-is-everything-folks/
May 31st, 2008 @ 9:55 pm
Well stated, JTB, thanks.
May 31st, 2008 @ 10:18 pm
As for cheating, if you don’t have specific instances or see someone cheating yourself you look like sour grapes or the Al Gore Democrats, especially accusing fellow Republican party members of wrongdoing with such high stakes. I agree a better system is probably necessary but I don’t like hearing people accuse the good fellow Republicans in the 7th district of cheating unless there is direct proof. No doubt the 7th is Gilmore and Gilmore supporter Cantor country but these folks are great conservatives as well who picked a different canidate.
Don’t know too much about Frederick until today butI was very impressed with his speech but when you promise the world you had better deliver in a hurry. When you trash past party leaders and volunteers for sorry performances you had better back up your promises.
If Frederick does 1/2 or even 1/4 of what he says he will be a successful leader. I am concerned he made way too many promises to just about everybody who would listen without the ability or experience necessary to back them up. Just looking at some campaign lit at the convention it seemed he blamed Hager for everything under the sun which is OK since Hager is the leader but he will in turn be blamed for everything if he cannot deliver results right away starting with the senate race this year.
May 31st, 2008 @ 10:23 pm
What Jim Gilmore should do is demand that the full set of numbers and calculations be published so his nomination cannot be questioned. If he does not, then I will be less than enthusiastic in support of someone that might have been selected by fraud. As a deacon, I have to be “above reproach” — I have to not give the appearance of being less than honest or upright. I’m not perfect by any standard — especially God’s — but that doesn’t mean a have flagrant public sin. Do we want our candidate less than above reproach? I don’t. One of the reasons I believe the Republicans are losing elections left and right is because we no longer have moral integrity as a given. If the difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans support business and Democrats support the little guy with no other difference, we will lose. If we have conservative values that start with personal integrity, then that will ring true with people that see the Democrats as being “liberal” with morals — they have no permanent moral compass, so they do what is “right” for the moment and in the situation in which they find themselves.
It was the Republicans that forced Nixon out of the White House. It was the Republicans that cleared out those that had reputation problems in Reagan’s administration. It was the Republicans that have always held principle above those that we elect. If Gilmore doesn’t get this in the nomination process, how is he supposed to get it later?
I’m not saying that he didn’t win — but if the process was so suspect (and having the 7th go last seems when everything else was in order) just seems too contrived.
Jim Gilmore:
Do the right thing. Even if it means you find you didn’t win, and you have to step aside. Make the vote tally public. You need to have the integrity to demand the counting be done up front and open. Anything less and you risk being looked at as suspect in *many* of the party’s core members.
May 31st, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
If we’re looking for a tighter and more exact way of choosing a Senate nominee, how about a primary next time?
May 31st, 2008 @ 11:48 pm
[...] 2: NOVATownHall has much more in-depth reporting on how the election was conducted. There may be some substantial [...]
June 1st, 2008 @ 12:09 am
Time for the “good ole boys” to put out their cigars and step aside. They have done a poor job running the party here in VA.
The Frederick win for GOP chair bodes well for Republicans in VA. I’ve volunteered to work for all of his races and I have to say his campaign team does nearly everything right. I’ve worked with others and none comes close. He knows how to win and is not afraid to do what it takes. He will not run wimpy or silly campaigns (think Jerry Kilgore, Bob Dole)
I know Jeff pretty well and while we are not “friends” by my definition, I can tell you that he has kept every campaign promise he has ever made and stuck to his principles. Jeff strong conservative beliefs are balanced by his wife’s (and advisor) pragmatism. Jeff is not a back slapper or charmer but I’ve had a chance to watch him closely and how he runs campaigns. Trust me, he will work his butt off for the GOP in VA.
June 1st, 2008 @ 4:30 am
Peter,
I hope that not only will he work hard, but that he will work right. I hope and trust you are correct — I especially hope that he sticks to principles.
June 1st, 2008 @ 7:24 am
I was there and had an identical take on ‘joe’s’ article above. Bob Marshall was robbed. Jeff Frederick will fix this crap decribed above and send the neocons packing.
June 1st, 2008 @ 7:58 am
Dr Noel,
It aint got nothing to do with noecons, it has everything to do with a good ol’ boy network of RINO’s who are interested in power for powers sake. These fools have been running our party into the ground for 6 years.
If you are blaming this on “neocons” then either you do not have a clue what a neocon is or you are engaging in jingoism. Using neocons as a blanket term for anyone you do no like is stupid, pure and simple.
June 1st, 2008 @ 8:01 am
Brian,
I left the convention, my very first, both disgusted and elated. Sheesh, I thought the dirty tricks wouldn’t be so obvious to someone new to the process.
I hope Gilmore does publish the numbers. The whole voting process is suspect and way too time consuming (can we please move into the 21st century?) and with it being that close and convoluted, a recount was in order. Period. But I won’t hold my breath.
I’m looking for republican candidates who are honest, who have integrity and who stand on principle. I’m sick of moving to the left. Our principles win every time. Anyone remember Reagan
It’s obvious to me that the RPV is pretty much split 50-50. I think it’s a huge, maybe impossible task for Gilmore to try to woo those of us who’ve had it with the same old crap, and to generate excitement about his candidacy. I won’t hold my breath on that one either. It seems like the establishment candidates are very good at ignoring the elephant in the room (pun intended).
I was thrilled that Jeff Frederick won. I do believe he represents the “new” direction of the party back to its roots. It doesn’t hurt to have his lovely wife Amy by his side. Kudos to her for some wonderful campaigning.
June 1st, 2008 @ 8:11 am
Frederick needs to clean out the deadwood. The term ’seal kill’ in business means walking from office to office firing people. The dead seals are frogmarched off the premises, their personal belongs are shipped to them. This is the course of action that would be best as it is dramatic as all get out.
Take out the worst offenders first. Bring in your own people to replace the departed. Closely observe the survivors, repeat as needed.
June 1st, 2008 @ 9:21 am
Let us all hope that Jeff Frederick can makes the changes needed to allow candidates such as Bob Marshall and Ken C. success with the full weight and energy of the party behind them. Frederick received a mandate, when your opponent gets creamed as bad as Hagar did the party is unhappy. The rank and file conservative base of the VAGOP sent a very clear message to those who have been running the show. Thank you for the losses, your fired !
I can not help to think we as a party missed an opportunity by not selecting Bob Marshall as our candidate for the US Senate. Bob Marshall is as principled a politician as Virginia has to offer and a man who the Warner campaign had every reason to fear. Bob Marshall presented us with a better a much better chance to defeat Warner. But more important than that we had a shot at electing a real citizen legislator.
I only hope that Fredericks leadership creates an atmosphere where the party is not only receptive but smart enough to know that attracting candidates like Bob Marshall and Ken C. is a winning formula.
June 1st, 2008 @ 9:47 am
Teri captured the reactions of many “…disgusted and elated…” perfectly.
To Brian’s excellent suggestion, this is regrettably impossible, based on what I saw in our unit. 10th Congressional District GOP Chair Jim Rich kept in his personal possession the ballots for the smaller units. I asked what was going to be done with them, and he explained that he would destroy them asap. Basically, he walked out with the evidence, or left it in the trash. I am beside myself that Rich didn’t see anything wrong with this.
I was one of many who shuffled by the table, attempting to discern the mysterious process whereby the gentleman pictured above repeatedly attempted to come up with a satisfactory result. The many scratch-outs aren’t easily discernable at that resolution, but they were there. Gazing at this mysterious process alongside 10th District Chair Jim Rich, with Rich simultaneously voicing his absolute faith in his assistant, who “always got it right”, brought to mind Russell Crowe’s study/shed in “A Beautiful Mind”. Either Rich and his assistant are simply brilliant, or there is another explanation. Maybe they should bring a Ouji board next time as well, just as backup.
June 1st, 2008 @ 10:02 am
[...] blog offers up a string of gripes (here). The author does not believe the process of tallying the vote totals was properly [...]
June 1st, 2008 @ 10:43 am
Great account, Joe. Thanks.
June 1st, 2008 @ 11:13 am
Republicanvoter, Believe me I did not originate the suspicions about how the vote tallying occurred. I am reporting what the large group of people around me in the 10th District were discussing. I should have gotten a photograph of the faces when the final tally was being read. There was plenty of sentiment that the 7th District got away with something.
June 1st, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
Fair enough but I would love to see some proof before people start accusing our Republican friends in the 7th of essentially criminal activities such as rigging elections. Congressman Cantor and many in is a great man and a great convservative there are also many great conservatives in the 7th such as Bill Bolling and it just bothers me to see accusations thrown around about other good conservatives without specific evidence.
BTW, I completely agree about the need for better verification procedures in the future. Hopefully Frederick will fix this.
June 1st, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
Who, Gilmore do something dishonest??
NEVER!!
I was the 5th District Coordinator for Marshall, and I saw Gilmore send out his midweek piece with not only misleading statements, but downright false fabrications regarding Bob’s record in the House.
For instance a gentleman from Lunenburg County here in the 5th stopped Gilmore in the aisle and asked him if Jim’s contention was true that Bob voted for a budget bill that had money in designated for Planned Parenthood.
Jim’s typically arrogant response was “Of course, would I put it in there if it wasn’t?”
I know this happened because I was standing there when it happened.
A constant stream of Gilmore operatives then converged on this man who simply wanted the truth, attempting to mislead him yet further.
When I informed him that since the Senate removed that line item before it got the House Bob could not possibly have voted for it, he agreed with me that Bob was indeed the right choice for Senate, as he had originally thought anyhow.
It is part and parcel of the Republican Party of recent days to slant the outcome whenever possible always against those whom they consider a greater threat than even the Democrats- Conservatives.
I saw it at the 5th District Convention as well, and I was there too!
I ran for 5th District Chairman and faced the same litany of lies and deceitful misrepresentations that are now par for the course in today’s Republican Establishment.
They never learn,and probably never will, and simply must be removed from leadership.
June 1st, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
[...] doing its usual sore loser rumor mongering (here). However, even novatownhall blog (here) is speculating on the matter, and the SkepticalObserver is offering his comments to refute the [...]
June 1st, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
I’m in agreement with Teri. I got a feeling in the pit of my stomach on friday during the nominaiting process for temp chairman, and then on sat I got sick of the way the nominaiting for delegates was going ,I had to leave. If Bolling was doing this as planned, I am disguested with this party. Hopfully with a new leader in Frederick we can all get on board and see a new real Republican party that is dedicated to equal rights, justice and a free society. With constitutional limitations and fiscal reponsibilites.I for one, as all of us should offer Jeff Frederick any support, help, time that he made need to move this party forward.
June 1st, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
I am frankly disgusted with the sour grapes attitude of Bob Marshall’s supporters. To accuse the 7th District of wrong-doing with absolutely no proof is flat out wrong (and no, the “sentiment” of folks in the 10th district is not proof). I live in the 7th District, and when our Chairman said that we would pass, there was much confusion, but only because we were wondering if there was a problem with the vote. That was until I heard that our total was so decisive, that it was decided that the 7th, Gov. Gilmore’s home district, would go last in order to be the ones to send him to victory. Apparently, you do not know 7th District Chairman Linwood Cobb, because you would NEVER make such an accusation if you did. He is a great chairman and a man of principle.
Additionally, I’m sure you’ve never actually met the staff at RPV because they work hard and do a great job for the party accross the entire state. Referring to those that work at the party as “asshats” is childish and insulting. Other than writing on the blog and voting in elections, what exactly do you do to help the party? Way to wish people out of a job. Get a life.
Lastly, Mr. Boyer, you’re calling Gov. Gilmore dishonest? At least when he wasn’t passing out fliers attacking his opponent with no indication of who produced the fliers like SOME people were….
June 1st, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Well, South, it almost wasn’t “so decisive” now, was it? Yet they proclaimed victory quite confidently when they read their numbers. Somebody there was keeping a tally, that’s for sure.
Fact is, even if there wasn’t anything fishy going on, with a vote that close … given the fairly complicated weighting system being calculated by hand by human beings … a recount was in order. Those of us who spent $50 in gas and the first Saturday of our summer inside the Richmond Convention Center should at least have had the satisfaction of leaving with a feeling of confidence that the votes were correctly tabulated and reported. The way it went down, that confidence is sorely lacking.
It is not sour grapes to wonder why things weren’t done more professionally. This will only hurt Gilmore because someone like me can’t say with confidence that he won fair and square, and as a result I am a lot less likely to feel passionate about campaigning for him. I may vote for him in November, but I’m not so inclined to spend my summer evenings doing lit drops or posting signs. And I personally like Gilmore (though I voted for Marshall because I like him better).
BTW, Joe has done plenty to campaign for various local and state candidates. I can attest to that.
June 1st, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
South:
I think you are missing the big picture here. Linda B laid it out quite well. It is about confidence, honesty and being to effectively convey to your party that its internal processes are fair. It is about insuring there are no lingering doubts in the minds of those the party is going to ask to go to work on behalf of the winning candidates. This is all about the process.
The facts that there are any doubts indicates there are issues that need to be addressed. If not, those folks like Linda B and others will simply stay home and find something to do with their valuable family time.
Pissing off your grass roots activists is never very smart. Yet this party seems to continue to do it.
By the way, I assure you Joe has worked plenty hard for Republican candidates in NOVA.
June 1st, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
Great….people like you better not complain when Mark Warner is your Senator then, raising taxes and abandoning our troops. It was also really classy for Marshall to attack McCain in his speech. I would like Del. Marshall to honestly tell us who he supports in this year’s presidential race because I’m pretty sure he’d have to say Ron Paul (one of his son’s had a Ron Paul bumper sticker on his car and I saw his campaign manager put a “reLOVEution” sticker on his car). Sorry, but no matter who you supported in the primary, John McCain is the nominee, and if you’re running for the REPUBLICAN nomination for Senate, you shouldn’t attack the REPUBLICAN Presidential nominee in your nomination speech (at the Virginia REPUBLICAN Convention).
Of course the campaigns were keeping track…that’s what they’re there to do. Once they realized that Gilmore had the votes, the 7th (his home district) wanted to be the one that put him over the top. No matter what you say, it’s sour grapes. A win is a win, whether its by 1 vote or 100 votes.
June 1st, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
Um, Paul is a Republican candidate as well, no? So until McCain get the nomination at the convention, I don’t see how supporting Paul should be viewed as anti-Republican.
And no matter what YOU say, it’s not sour grapes. (I think I know how I feel just a tad better than you, thanks.) Had there been a recount and Gilmore won it, I would have been disappointed, but 100 percent on board.
June 1st, 2008 @ 8:30 pm
I was watching the votes in the 6th district. The chair was distracted with all the commotion around him. He would take a units number and accidentally put it with the wrong unit, even mixing up the numbers for the candidate. It could not have been easy trying to tally votes with observers all around, demanding numbers, having unit chairs, who were not instructed prior to the vote, asking questions. Many chairs were confused with how the numbers were weighted–and was it one or 2 or 3 decimals to round to?
There was very little instruction and much chaos and confusion. Not to mention the inconsistencies with credentialing– 4 voters from VA Beach were not allowed, yet a state delegate from the 6th district was. The VA Beach chairman had his delegation list (the one he mailed to RPV) with him and they still would not allow them to vote.
I’m not playing conspiracy theory here–just pointing out the obvious chaos and inconsistencies that were in play by a group of country club republicans who were more interested in protecting their status, than in protecting the integrity of the convention.
June 1st, 2008 @ 10:47 pm
What kind of proof do you want that the 7th dist. did something wrong. How about the Chairman Mike Wade turning the votes over and looking at who you voted for. How about Mike going to the stage with the votes and sorting them ummmm. How about a women sitting near me who was only a delegate going thru the votes and counting them. I didn’t know what was going on. I was highly upset that Mike looked and turned over my votes. Who was I going to tell and then I would have to live with “telling on the sheriff in my town” Iam not that brave. Not yet anyways. I don’t plan to not do anything about what I saw just don’t know what to do about it at this point.
June 1st, 2008 @ 11:38 pm
Let’s see, South of the Riveras commissioner of verbal propriety, equates mere mention of a candidate’s position on drilling in ANWAR as an attack on John McCain?
Perhaps SOTR never read this January 16, 2008 exchange on National Review on line on Sen. McCain’s position.
“Mike Goldfarb: Some people are perplexed by your rhetoric on global warming. Is this one of those ‘no surrender’ issues, or is there room for discussion?
McCain: There’s always room for discussion. But I don’t know how any conservative can not support cap and trade. We did it with acid rain. The Europeans are putting it into effect. It’s a capitalist process that encourages green technologies. If we’re wrong, all we’ve done is adopt green technologies, in an effort to give our kids a greener planet.
As far as ANWR is concerned, I don’t want to drill in the Grand Canyon, and I don’t want to drill in the Everglades. This is one of the most pristine and beautiful parts of the world.
Goldfarb: Carbon tax?
Yet, at meeting after meeting, Jim Gilmore would tell fellow Republicans he wanted to drill in ANWAR, which was followed by the predictable aapplause.
Jim NEVER ONCE told mass meeting or Congressional meeting participants that our standard bearer was OPPOSED to drilling, and that there might be problems achieving that goal.
I suspect many at these meetings did not know Sen. McCain’s position.
I believe in candor with citizens. and presenting realistic goals, not knee jerk slogans.
In my convention speech I simply wanted to be practical and let convention goers know I would find ways around that.
SOTH, do you agree with Sen. McCain’s position? Yes, or no?
As self proclimed keeper of the official social decorum temperature, if you think we should drill in ANWAR, presumaby with appropriate conservation safeguards, why is my mentioning energy alternatives to McCaine’s ANWAR opposition an attack on him?
Policy disagreements are not personal attacks. What logic books do you read?
Delegate Bob Marshall
PS I’ll have my sons check with you to get your personal permission and imperial “OK” before they put any more Republican presidential bumper strips on their cars.
June 1st, 2008 @ 11:43 pm
This is why I love Bob Marshall! Sorry I couldn’t make it down there to vote, but it looks like he may just have been robbed.
Conservation, which will of course only make us more self sufficient, should always be at the top of any conservatives choices for energy policy. ANWR is a sound bit and a blip in our annual consumption. We have to have more nuclear and more conservation first.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 1:25 am
I was a Marshall supporter. And sure, I’d love to have been able to count every ballot myself, I’d love to know each unit’s totals. There were obviously “problems”, like the 11th district having no decimal places, and other districts having numbers that added up to fractions.
But you know, one way or another the vote was about 50/50. If Marshall had won by 60 votes, it would still be 50/50, and there’d be 50% of the people wondering if something was counted wrong, and a party worrying if the 50% that “lost” would come around and join the fight.
My feeling is that when you are close enough to 50/50, it really DOESN’T MATTER which candidate wins. They were both equally loved and/or hated. With weighted votes, we could be talking about a few colds and sniffles, some car trouble, a late-scheduled business trip — or even just running late, or getting a ride at the last minute, and the outcome changes.
I am certain that there were enough registered delegates for Bob who didn’t show up to change the outcome — but then there were registered delegates for Gilmore who didn’t show up.
My point — both candidates would be reasonably considered “chosen” by about 50%. 50 votes one way or another simply isn’t that meaningful, except to the candidates, one of whom wins while the other loses.
So I try not to get quite so worked up about failures in the process when we are talking about a switch of a few votes. If you don’t want the simple errors of life to get you, find a way to take 55% of the vote instead of 50%.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 2:51 am
With my post, I don’t say that it was one way or the other. I do say it was close.
South … The problem that I and a *lot* of other conservative republicans have is what you state, and what I state myself when feeling pragmatic: given the choice, who do you support?
That problem occurs in part because of a two party system. There is essentially always going to be only one of two choices, and only one person selected (with everyone else getting no say in government). At times like this, the British or German systems looks a lot better (representation as a percent of election among many parties) so that there is at least the possibility of having a voice.
The present Republican party takes the conservative vote for granted, then plays to the middle hoping to get elected. The conservatives are a sure thing … or at least that is what is thought … so just pick the person just right of the Democrat, and you can win.
Not if the conservatives get so disgusted at not being represented that they stay home.
That is the real issue here.
The moral/fiscal conservatives are more likely to want honesty and integrity than anything else. I know I do. I think Carter was a lousy president, but I also think he was the most honorable president we’ve had in my lifetime. That is sad.
It is sad because what ought to be a Republican trump card has been squandered. The “party” has left principle for electability, and in doing so, they have lost and will lose elections. We can only hope the party returns to roots that were set in the time of Lincoln. Roots that demand what is right ahead of everything else. Roots that would rather embrace defeat than dishonesty.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 4:44 am
Delegate Bob,
Just let us know when we can campaign for you again!
Joe
June 2nd, 2008 @ 7:38 am
Would someone please explain to me, if Jeff Frederick is going to do such wonderful things, WHY was he not backing Bob Marshall?
At the convention I was given a list of Gilmore supporters with Jeff Frederick’s name on it.
May I humbly hazard a guess that Frederick’s support would have been decisive in clinching Bob Marshall’s nomination?
June 2nd, 2008 @ 8:07 am
1. I was told by my CD chairman that the manual calculation of the weighted vote was to check the computer calculated weighted vote (I was in a district that scanned the ballots).
2. I spoke with a gentleman from Virginia Beach. He said that a grand total of 65 people came from VB to vote 600 delegate votes i.e. each attendee’s vote was worth about 9 weighted votes. If 10-15 more Marshall supporters had showed up there would’ve been a swing of somewhere between 100 and 150 votes in favor of Bob. I imagine there are other examples from around the commonwealth where a relatively small number of people cast large numbers of weighted votes.
3. Is it that difficult for the organizers to look at the number of attendees from each county and set up an appropriate number of chairs for them? This isn’t exactly rocket science.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 8:11 am
Gary,
I had not noticed that…I agree, it could have been decisive. Could that have been another dirty trick like stuffing the bags we were given with Gilmore/Hager info and not including Frederick/Marshall info?
It seemed to me that the people wearing Marshall stickers mostly were also wearing Frederick stickers. Does anyone here know if Jeff did, in fact, support Gilmore?
June 2nd, 2008 @ 8:33 am
SOTR
Your postings are a synopsis of everything that is wrong with this party!
Bob Marshall
Anytime you are ready!Your supporters are passionate about truth and that will make the difference,we will support you not just in fair weather.
This was my first encounter with politics, thanks to Dr Ron Paul curing my apathy.
The tide is turning, we are cleaning house and bringing it back to what it is supposed to be.
I have seen the gold standards for politicians, could never settle for the likes of gilmore ,warner, or even insane mcain.
It is that simple!
Out with the gubermint of,by and for
the not so ‘good ol boys’!
June 2nd, 2008 @ 10:12 am
Gilmore/Marshall made NRO. Get a load of this reporting from the Fredericksburg Free Lance Star:
Speaking to reporters afterward, Gilmore conceded that the narrowness of his victory “was a surprise.”
“We did not put resources into the convention that maybe we should have to get a larger margin,” Gilmore said.
He said he has focused his campaign on Warner, and believes the issues important to general voters are different from the social issues driving Marshall’s supporters.
Republican activist and Marshall supporter Shaun Kenney, a former spokesman for the party, said Gilmore “needs to reassure values voters that he’s with them.”
But the nominee said he’s not going to change his principles to win political support. While he’s anti-abortion and opposes late-term abortions, Gilmore said, “I’ve never believed we should impose a strict law on women that don’t agree with us.”
He also said Marshall’s supporters aren’t likely to back Warner.
“We believe they’re going to be supportive of us,” Gilmore said. “The things they believe in are things Mark Warner never supported.”
NRO take: Translation: “I will take you for granted because you have no option.” A winning strategy — for losing.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/062008/06012008/384188
June 2nd, 2008 @ 10:35 am
I was there. The support for Bob Marshall was overwhelming. The applause deafening. He spoke with conviction and connected with true conservatives.
Then came the voting. Why did the 7th District pass? It was so obvious that something was not right. My husband and I kept a running tally of the votes. It looked like Bob Marshall was clearly the winner. Then the 7th District gave Gilmore the votes he needed to win. Amazing! WHY DIDN”T THEY GIVE THEIR VOTES WHEN CALLED ON THE FIRST TIME? The answer is so obvious.
I, too, am disappointed that Jeff Fredrick didn’t endorse Bob Marshall. To answer Gary and Mike, he told me that he endorsed Jim Gilmore back in November, and Bob Marshall didn’t enter the race until January. He said he is a man of his word, but that he is good friends with Bob and in agreement with him on the issues. (If only he had made this public, it may have changed the outcome!)
June 2nd, 2008 @ 10:59 am
The 7th district should have been required to report numbers on their turn, not wait til the similar numbers from the 11th district were turned in. If there is a way to vote again, and have someone watching over the counting and figuring process, I’ll be there! GO BOB GO!
June 2nd, 2008 @ 11:12 am
I know someone who actually watched the count. It appears some of the districts had low turnout, a heavy weight and the folks who did show up were Gilmore supporters. Boots on the ground from ALL the districts is important. I am a Marshall supporter, it is a shame he did not win the nomination. I do not think any overt skulduggery occurred with the count, I am suspicious of the alterations to the voting blocks.
Lets not let our suspicions poison the air folks. This kind of thing is remebered and causes a lot of bitterness in the future. I am all for driving the RINO’s out of the leadership of the RPV. I however do not want to cause more acrimony than is required.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
Go back and read comment #29. You cannot turn a deaf ear or blind eye either. I am still quite skeptical that things were recorded accurately, its not just that I wanted Bob to win.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 2:09 pm
“That was until I heard that our total was so decisive, that it was decided that the 7th, Gov. Gilmore’s home district, would go last in order to be the ones to send him to victory.”
Funny, but after hearing the 11th District totals, I figured that that would be decisive for Marshall. As was pointed out to us with the seating location of the 7th, the process of ballot counting and the “Gilmore” people doing the counting, along with the “missed” literature in bags….too many coincidental occurances. And at the announcement, Bolling called for Gilmore FIRST to give his acceptance speech at which time got changed to Marshall’s concession speech of which there was none (at least to me I heard nothing sounding like concedeing defeat). I appreciate that much Bob, as well as not immediately “throwing” your support to Gilmore. Yes, he will need our help to win but I personnally will wait for Jim to do some soul searching and alot of humbling!
Sour grapes? I have been privy to my first 3 conventions as delegate and going from local to state. I am far from being impressed by procedures; all conventions seemed to be “dicey” and I think kindergarden has more organization. As I told Joe-I do not intend to go to the national or international conventions. I have been worn out and dismayed!
BTW The first smartass that tries to explain there is no international convention (someday, folks, there surely MAY be if we don’t get our act together) doesn’t know me very well so save the explaination.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
Marie,
That is disturbing. More so the second time I read it. Point taken.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
ACT,
International Brotherhood of Republicans?!!? EEEEIIIIUUUUWWW!!
June 2nd, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
The continuing reliance on conventions will doom the GOP in Virginia. Every one I have been to has been fraught with problems. Register by party and have impartial state run primaries with limited chances for BS.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
Delegate Bob :
Thank you for a great effort. Many of us and I mean MANY, will be there when you decide to do it again. Just know that the support for your straight forward conservative message resonates with the majority of citizens. Bob Marshall was the most popular citizen legislator or candidate in the room last Saturday.
I believe Virginia Republicans missed an opportunity. However, I was very proud to know that many of us selected the right man.
We will be ready for round II.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
I would’ve like to have seen the actual time that Gilmore and Marshall got. The Gilmore endorsements (almost all of which were from people I had never heard of) seemed to go on and on and on and then was finally followed by a fairly lengthy speech by Gilmore. Marshall had two nominating speeches and didn’t seem, to me at least, to have spoken too long before he was cut off.
Did anyone keep track of the actual time they each received?
June 2nd, 2008 @ 3:45 pm
Many of us would be curious to know how much time Bob Marshal was given for his speech. If anyone timed it, please chime in.
The same curiosity arose when Vern McKinley gave his seemingly short speech at the 10th District Convention. – Repression?
June 2nd, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
Loudoun Conservative,
I do agree with you much, but I think you stumbled upon something here. A closed primary system would be THE solution to the nonsense we get at both the open primaries and the conventions.
I am sure there are evils associated with a closed primary system. I am willing to see what they are like, because the current system is giving me fits.
June 2nd, 2008 @ 10:14 pm
[...] B. over at NovaTownhall Blog has reported on the convention process itself, mentioning everything from seating arrangements to vote calculations. He sees irregularities and [...]
June 3rd, 2008 @ 12:38 pm
YOU CAN ASK THE UNIT CHAIRS FOR THE VOTE TOTALS BUT DON’T WASTE THE TIME. MARK TATE DID IT FOR THE 10TH TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BERRY VOTES DID NOT AFFECT THE OUTCOME. THE BARRY VOTES IF PROPERLY COUNTED, BECAUSE THEY WERE PRIMARILY (THOUGH NOT TOTALLY) FROM ROANOAKE AND SALEM WHERE GILMORE WON WOULD HAVE HELPED GILMORE.
IN WARREN SINCE I DID THE COUNTING IT WAS 22-3 FOR MARSHALL
IF MARSHALL HAD PUT TOGETHER A WHIP FLOOR ORGANIZATION TO FIGHT THE RULES ON FRIDAY AT 2:00 WHEN I MOVED TO STRIKE RULE H UNDER VOTING AND REPLACE IT WITH EACH CAMPAIGN HAVING AN APPOINTED TELLER THERE WOULD HAVE BE NO QUESTION OF CHEATING AT THIS POINT.
BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC PRESSURE FROM THE FLOOR FIGHT FRIDAY, IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANY PURPOSEFUL CHEATING, I DO NOT BELIEVE IT HAPPENED. YES THERE COULD HAVE BEEN MISTAKES IN THE COUNTING BUT MARSHALL WAS NOT PREPARED TO FIGHT FOR THE ABILITY TO OVERSEE THAT. HOPEFULLY HE WILL NEXT TIME.
GILMORE WON FAIR AND SQUARE.
THE THUGOCRACY OF THE EARLY FRIDAY 2:00 PM MEETING, THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF, DID HELP FREDERICK BECAUSE EVEN THE GILMORE PEOPLE WERE DISGUSTED WITH THE TRASHING AND IGNORING OF THE RULES.
BELOW IS PART OF AN ANALYSIS I SENT TO A FRIEND THAT POINTS OUT WHAT CONSTITUTIONALLY MINDED REPUBLICANS SHOULD LEARN.
1. The Marshall campaign had no professionals who knew how to set up a floor organization to bring the meeting to a stop until they
a. acknowledged the 2nd nomination for temp chair.
b. acknowledged my motion to have tellers from each campaign and then vote on it according to the weighted vote rule. If they had done so, we would have won because even the Gilmore people saw the fairness in that and even if the Gilmore people had not joined us we still had the votes to make it close but no floor organiztion to make it happen. Our people were confused and did not know what to do.
2. Hagar lost every district overwhelmingly except the 7th, where it was close.
3. The movement to restore the integrity of Republican Party is growing. No one learns to play high level chess in one or two fights and just as Rome was not built in a day our liberties were not lost overnight. But with patriots like you there will be better fights to come.
If Webb is the Obama VP and Obama wins (which is questioable even though the Dems will pick up House and Senate seats) Marshall will run again and could win IF AND ONLY IF he learns the right lessons as to why he lost. Additionally he won’t be running against the formidable opponent Mark Warner.
I sat down with key people in the Marshall campaign before I left to make sure they knew why they lost. They understand and I believe Bob does too.
Yes, ultimately it was the providence of God that determined that Gilmore would win but we will never win blaming our opponenets for doing what we are supposed to expect them to do and be prepared and organized to counter.
Bob made some decisions months ago that would have killed anybody else’s chance of winning but Bob’s. And that is because Bob is an awesome and incredible warrior for life and liberty. He almost pulled it off anyway.
15 or so more delegates in the heavily weighted units would have overcome the 65 weighted vote loss.
Gilmore bused his delegates in from the 9th and 7th, he had paid professionals to oversee credentials where they challenged several delegates and did not seat them. Bob had no professionals that knew how to organize a convention.
Marshall had NONE of what Gilmore had and he almost won anyway. He had no plan for the 9th and 7th, which is where he lost it. He had no paid professionals who understand how to oversee credentionals and then organize a whip action floor fight if he lost in the credentials committee.
His campaign staff was incredible. They are wonderful, dedicated, hard working people who will be better prepared next time. Many of them were humble enough to admit they were learning ont he run. That is why I am so encouraged.
Thank you Bob Marshall for running. Your courage is what has given your people the opportunity to learn and grow.
Marshall is a hero for simply fighting. He has learned a lot. Guys like Bob who win in small districts generally have to learn the hard way that state-wide politics is a different game.
Bob is a brilliant man and I hope and pray he not only has learned the right lessons of political warfare but will apply them in his next run which could be a special election in December or January.
The recovery of liberty will not be won or lost in one fight. The recovery of liberty will be a long process of many protracted fights with patriots like you will who have the stamina to understand that Win or Lose we gain new people and resources with better training and willingness to be trained for the next fight every time we fight.
sic Semper Tyrannus
Mike McHugh
Vice-Chairman Warren County Republican Party
June 3rd, 2008 @ 9:20 pm
Well Del. Marshall, you never did clarify who you support in the presidential election, so I guess it’s a good thing that there wasn’t a requirement at the convention to sign the pledge of intent to support the party’s nominees in the fall!
I never said I support Sen. McCain’s position on ANWR (no “A” in ANWR by the way). I didn’t support McCain in the primary…not by a long shot. But he is our party’s nominee, and I will support him. I do not want to see a President Obama, so I have decided to compromise and look at the big picture. I think that being able to do that would be beneficial in this Senate race as well. If we can all unite behind Gov. Gilmore and direct our attention to fighting Mark Warner, we will have a much better shot at winning. Considering that all a Senator can really do to advance the cause of life is vote for strict constructionist judges (who can rule against Roe v. Wade), there is no reason why you or anyone else who values life cannot support Jim Gilmore.
June 4th, 2008 @ 11:40 pm
South of the River:
You are seriously mistaken.
Politicians have had 35 years to appoint pro-life judges. I said that in my speech. Waiting for pro-life judges is a cop out. Senators can do much, much.
The Congress can define the word “person” in the 14th Amendment to include human beings from fertilization foreward just as Rep. Duncan Hunter has done.
110th CONGRESS
1st Session H. R. 618
To implement equal protection under the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution for the right to life of each born and preborn human person.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 22, 2007 Mr. HUNTER (plus 110 co-sponsors, including Bob Goodlatte, Virgil Goode, Robert Wittman, ALL of Virginia)
________________________________________
A BILL
To implement equal protection under the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution for the right to life of each born and preborn human person.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Right to Life Act’.
SEC. 2. RIGHT TO LIFE.
To implement equal protection for the right to life of each born and preborn human person, and pursuant to the duty and authority of the Congress, including Congress’ power under article I, section 8, to make necessary and proper laws, and Congress’ power under section 5 of the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Congress hereby declares that the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human being.
SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
For purposes of this Act:
(1) HUMAN PERSON; HUMAN BEING- The terms `human person’ and `human being’ include each and every member of the species homo sapiens at all stages of life, including, but not limited to, the moment of fertilization, cloning, or other moment at which an individual member of the human species comes into being.
(2) STATE- The term `State’ used in the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States and other applicable provisions of the Constitution includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and each other territory or possession of the United States.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR00618:@@L&summ2=m
Now, ask Jim Gilmore if he will support that. Don’t hold your breath.
Further, please cite for readers of this blog any US Senate candidate in the last 50 years who has won, coming from unfavorables of 42-44%. That would at least give you some credibility for your claim that Jim Gilmore.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for you to find the answer to this one.
Delegate Bob Marshall
PS I only had to establish name ID, and link my name to issued favored by majorities of Virginia voters.
June 6th, 2008 @ 8:56 pm
Dear Bob,
Keep up the good work! It took William Wilberforce over 20 years to abolish Britain’s slave trade. You can be the Wilberforce in America to bring an end to legalized abortion.
There are many of us who will help you all we can!
Dan Talbot
June 9th, 2008 @ 8:28 am
Bob,
Watch the Obama pick for VP. Your chance at another shot for Senator may be coming sooner than expected!
May 31st, 2009 @ 4:35 am
[...] Bob Marshall, who probably would have given Mark Warner a run for his money last year in the Virginia U.S. Senate race, had last year’s Convention gone a little differently. [...]