Sterling Public Meeting With Sheriff Simpson and Supervisors
September 24th, 2008 by joe
About 530 residents showed up at Park View High School in Sterling tonight for an ad hoc emergency public meeting to address the recent crime wave in the community.
The Loudoun County Government was represented by Sheriff Steve Simpson and Supervisors Susan Buckley, Andrea McGimsey, Eugene Delgaudio, Stevens Miller and Scott York. (Supervisors Lori Waters and Kelly Burk, whose districts don’t overlap with the “Sterling” area, were also present but not on the dais.)
Supervisor York did an excellent job moderating what was, undeniably, a harsh situation. He took some shots from an audience that was clearly on edge and often near combustible.
But Sheriff Simpson had to absorb more criticism than any other party and he handled it well, if perhaps too impassively. I think Simpson is a good guy and good sheriff but an incredibly tone deaf public official. In personal conversations Simpson has expressed to me he understands the problems we face in Sterling. He should do a much better job explaining how he “feels our pain” and is committed to doing more to solve our problems. Standing in a large auditorium full of people on the verge of rage over the crime problem here, he talked at length about how the Sheriff’s Office is doing all it can do and more than most people realize.
This was, to put it mildly, not the information the audience was seeking. Consequently Simpson was literally shouted down a couple times during his remarks by audience members demanding to know what more would be done, and York had to step in and restore order. At one point a gang task force deputy went to the podium to explain in more detail what was being done in the investigations that was not showing up in the news.
[As a side note to Sheriff Simpson, I would suggest he go back to the notes he brought to a Board of Supervisors meeting last year. Simpson met with officials from the town of Herndon and brought a file full of notes to our Board, and explained to them what he learned from Herndon’s experience: There needs to be a comprehensive effort from the whole government. Specifically, if the government will not enforce zoning regulations, law enforcement is put in an untenable situation. Simpson did not address that topic tonight. He should bring what he learned from Herndon to our new Board members.]
Delgaudio bluntly addressed the nonexistent zoning enforcement in eastern Loudoun County as a key piece of the illegal alien crime puzzle, and Buckley went into more detail, revealing that our zoning investigation process requires investigators to call for an appointment before checking a reported overcrowded house. No surprise there is no enforcement.
Through all of this, I sensed expectation in the audience for answers which were not, up to this point, forthcoming. Within the past three weeks there have been two shootings, a stabbing, one home invasion/sexual assault, another near-home invasion, all within a three mile radius here - along with other incidents not reported in the media (or acknowledged by the Sheriff’s Office or zoning administration). So by the time audience members got to speak there were very pointed criticisms and accusations directed at the Loudoun County government.
During the audience question and answer segment, which lasted from 7:15 until 9:25, the overriding themes were fear, need for more information - especially about gangs in our neighborhoods - exasperation that the county government does not crack down on reported violations of all sorts, and demands that the Loudoun Board of Supervisors do what jurisdictions such as Prince William County and Herndon have done to dissuade illegal aliens from settling here.
Overall, I think 80 percent of the audience was primed to hear how the illegal immigration problem in Sterling was going to be solved. There was a small contingent of Help Save Loudoun members present, of which only one spoke (and not me - I am not even in the group anymore and I have already spoken plenty in this burg, and I am out of that game). But many residents of Sterling are apparently aware of what other jurisdictions have done, and there was loud approval for each call for Loudoun County to do what our neighbors did. HSL might still be small, but the Sterling community has lots of other people who want the problem solved.
Anger about Loudoun County’s lax approach to illegal immigration simmered just beneath the surface of the discussion tonight. It was apparent in the crowd’s frustration when platitudes were being delivered from the podium. But it was also evident in the negative reaction to the few speakers from the audience who tried to make the case that we should not view illegal immigration as the problem here.
Here’s why I think our county officials should pay very close attention to what happened tonight.
Supervisors Buckley, Delgaudio and York specifically addressed the problems everyone sees here every day, and they all stated a sincere commitment to revamping zoning enforcement in eastern Loudoun. That was good. But from other remarks from the dais, the response was not as good. There was a lot of talking about response times and “hotline” numbers for law enforcement bandied about - but everyone in Sterling knows that complaint calls to zoning enforcement are calls into a black hole. According to many local residents, zoning enforcement never enforces anything. And while there was mixed opinion about the Sheriff’s Office, definitely a significant proportion of the crowd had complaints about the department’s effectiveness in Sterling. So there was an undercurrent of cynicism in the audience. Cynicism, and frustration.
By the huge turnout tonight - on short notice - relative to any other community meeting held in Sterling the past four years, it is clear the silent majority is becoming much louder. If there continue to be “incidents” here, the undercurrent will not remain beneath the surface. Tonight we saw frustration, even talk by two audience members of arming themselves and taking action against local gangs. We also saw quite a lot of extreme criticism of the Sheriff’s Office and the Board of Supervisors.
Eastern Loudoun County is a tinderbox. Residents are on edge about the criminals in our midst and about our government agencies not doing their job. The citizens are paying close attention to the government and they are expecting more enforcement of our laws and regulations, quickly.
The next gathering of this sort may require more crowd control if things don’t improve here.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 24th, 2008 at 1:42 am and is filed under Community, Sterling Crime Wave, immigration. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
September 24th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Good reporting, sounds like they wanted to communicate “we’re working on it” but no new ideas about how to address zoning.
So why no proposal for neighborhood committees to help prioritize zoning inquiries? Or how about removing the appointment requirement on the zoning violation reviews?
September 24th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Geo, that is exactly the problem, this is the 3rd or 4th “information gathering/venting” meeting and besides mowing grass, I’m not sure what the BOS has delivered.
I was expecting the Community Police Officers to educate the citizens on how to join or form a Neighborhood Watch - at the very least. Simpson sat there and took shots the whole night, and the Gang coordinator got up and said a couple words - which imho were not very educational or revealing. I have to admit the ragging on Police got very old, there were some legitimate gripes but they were overshadowed by a couple screwballs.
You could feel the frustration and people pretty much let loose on the BOS and LCSO, but after 2 hours it was enough. Top it off with the “can’t we all get along/hispanics are good people” brow beatings and calls for interpreters, and I called it quits. There was no talk of setting up individual neighborhood meetings with Community Police, which would have been huge. Is this going on that I don’t know about?
The LC Auxilary Police expansion was a good idea, but it diluted into what duties they would perform and “can the deputies ride around with their lights on all the time?” discussion.
I also wonder how Scott York can stand up and say he has no idea how PW County or Herndon has addressed zoning, ordinance violations and illegal immigration. Naive, ignorant or stupid?
Last point, the mentioning of the school budget threw a couple teachers next to me into a mouth lathering tizzy. The finger pointing and yelling was unbelievable, all over the mention that the school budget was bloated. These people are hell-bent on protecting their domain despite a forecasted 176 million $ shortfall - this is a big fight.
September 24th, 2008 at 10:33 am
It is called letting the situation get out of control with no accountability AS TO WHY and how to fix it.
Loudoun County faces a 176 million minus factor for next year and this will be a much larger figure when Hatrick and Sheriff Simpson put in their 2 cents. The excuse, more students(illegals as well) in schools AND not enough personal to patrol Loudoun County.
(ONGOING STATEMENTS EVERY YEAR)
Be prepared to pay 2x times more in taxes than last year. YEP, TAX PAYERS ALWAYS GET THE SHAFT.
To bad the tax dollar amount does not equal the service you pay for.
September 24th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I left with four impressions last night.
First, that what the Sheriff thinks LCSO is doing and what LCSO is actually doing, are different. Case in point, his comments about the neighborhood canvas after the recent shootings. For him to emphatically state that this took place, and for two individuals to stand up and say they were right there and no one has spoken to them, this is indicative of a major disconnect within LCSO.
Second, Sheriff Simpson may be pushing too much of our crime issue onto the Gang Task Force.
Third, the BOS is being stonewalled on the illegal immigration issue by those supervisors whose districts contain portions of the LoCo agriculture and equine industries. To name names : Miller, Burton, and Kurtz. McGinsey seems to not be sure of which side to take in this debate. We need to help her make up her mind.
Finally, areas such as Ashburn and Dulles South don’t seem to be overly concerned because they see this as a Sterling only problem. Guess they have not figured out yet who is running the drugs that are being marketed in their schools.
The one accomplishment of this BOS, they have allowed Prince William’s mess to become ours. With the budget shortfall, we can probably forget a Sterling substation. Using empty storefronts in the interim was a great idea, park a paddy wagon there, when it can be filled, run it up to the jail in Leesburg.
September 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Dan, I am always a little skeptical of citizen’s claims against Law Enforcement, and last night there was a lot of finger pointing and ascertions and we have no idea if they are true. But taking these citizens at their word, it does not suprise me that Simpson does not know every detail of all current investigations. Major Beardsley, the head of the Criminial Division for LCSO was there last night and I don’t know why he was not giving criminal investigation updates or responding to specific questions and allegations concerning canvassing.
I don’t know much about Simpson’s leadership style, but in my opinion some of the things he talked about last night probably should have been delegated to the Criminal Div Head or the Gang Task Force rep (although I already said he was not very impressive) for more specific answers.
The paddy wagon is an excellent idea. But didn’t Delgaudio say groundbreaking would happen on the Sterling substation in November and be completed by next summer? I think it is already budgeted, but I could be wrong.
September 24th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I thought the idea of building some of those storefronts into a substation was an excellent idea. What a difference that would make to that horrible shopping center. I bet it would persuade businesses to move in there.
September 24th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Cmac,
I think you were sitting in front and a few seats over from my wife and I, but only having met you once, was not sure.
My comment about the GTF was related to one of Simpson’s opening remarks about some of these crimes being domestic in nature. Yet he seemed to place too much emphasis on the GTF as a big part of the solution.
“I am always a little skeptical of citizen’s claims against Law Enforcement,”
We cannot overlook the inverse of this as well. I heard no one stand up last night and confirm that they were interviewed following the shooting. All I am saying is “is the left hand working in unison with the right”? My impression is, it is not. This is not a slam on the deputies..
In light of the forecasted budget shortfall, I expect the plug to be pulled on the substation, as I believe it is fiscally the right thing to do. There are workable alternatives. All we need is a little imagination and creativity. Oops, I forgot, this is Loudoun County..
September 24th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Yes, I recognized you Dan, was not sure if you recognized me. Next time (we’ll see if there is another one of these meetings) I will say hello.
I know 2 people that were interviewed about the triple shooting that were there last night that did not stand up and identify themselves. One is too scared to make a public stmt. I just talked with a lady in my office that lives 2 doors down from the triple shooting and she is worried about retribution if they speak to the LCSO - and no, she is not hispanic. She has 2 kids at Park View and doesn’t want her kids targeted. This is what keeps people talking publicly, or not at all.
Lastly, I found parts of the several people’s stmts about the canvassing and follow-up kind of strange, and I’ll leave it at that.
I agree on the GTF reliance, but the LCSO is woefully understaffed in this area, so I think Simpson relies on that expertise and kind of uses it as a crutch.
Storefront station is better than nothing! Why did the first one leave?
September 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Cmac, I was going to ask after the meting but we left before the wrap up to make sure homework was done, and everyone went to to bed on time..
I don’t know why they closed that down. Maybe politics to help push the new one through ?
September 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
The meeting was interesting indeed.
1. The board has now gone on the record in a public forum that they are willing to reach out and at least talk to other lawmakers as what as worked in their jurisdictions. Looking to Prince William County and the Town of Herndon for possible guidance is a good thing. I am going to do all I can to help facilitate those meetings.
2. The linkage of Illegal migrants and the county budget is important on many fronts. The Sherriffs Dept and our under achieving Zoning Dept can not provide the required level of public safety sharing only 30% of budget not gobbled up by schools. The school budget at its present level of 70plus % of all revenue makes it very difficult for these other departments to confront serious and growing issues of public safety
September 24th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
G, If the board does not respond, what if some concerned citizens of Loudoun were to put together a public forum with invited speakers from Herndon or PWC, who have already made progress in this battle ?
September 24th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Dans:
This is the next logical step and you wise to promote it. A very good idea.
September 24th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Everyone,
I think what is most important is that we take a step back, stand TOGETHER and get rid of those who do not want to provide a safe and fulfilling community experience. If the current BoS does not want to do it, then we let them know that they are on the way out.
All of this stems from the BoS. They allow illegals to roam the streets. They are the ones who would rather TAX US TO DEATH vs. actually act responsible and accountable. They are the ones who allow the annual school budgets destroy any hope of anything good being built in the County besides illegal daycare facilities, AKA public schools.
Simply put, the BoS act concerned to our faces, yet their impotent actions speak volumes about who they are as citizens.
If we really want change, we have to create it. We control our own destiny, I refuse to allow the BoS control it for me any longer.
Like ILLEGALS, I wonder if it is not time to convey to the BoS that they are also on the list of those who need to get out.
September 24th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Dans and G, I concur on a public forum.
When does the budget process for LoCo start?
September 24th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
OOps, I just outed myself as Mr. Whiskers - meow…..
Damned prefill on the name!
September 24th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
ROFL!!!
AND HOW DARE you suggest I kill El Jefe!
LMFAO!! That is too good. Tears comin’ out my eyes. Oh dear. wwwhhhhooooh.
September 24th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
As far as I know, the substation plan is still on track. Final bid deadline is in six days. Delgaudio was giving you the same info I received from a source as close as you can get to this project. The substation was a bond issue approved overwhelmingly by the voters in November 2007 for, as I recall, over five million bucks. I’m not up on all the fiscal jargon and details of county government but I do ask how the BOS could technically kill a bond-supported project already approved by the voters and by themselves? Unless it becomes an issue of cost overruns or the actual level of staffing. That aside and given the current flaming temperament in the Park, I don’t know how any BOS could sabotage this project without the risk of having their own houses burned down by an angry mob — speaking figuratively, you understand. Anybody out there have the fiscal expertise to explain the possibilities for sabotage of an approved bond project?
September 24th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I have heard that there are serious issues with failing to provide funding for civilian support staff for the substation and that there will not be any civilian support there unless a budgetary “enhancement” occurs. Is this true or just the start of some b.s. reason to delay for another year or indefinitely?
September 24th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Shoot, if you’re talking about civilian janitorial staffing, I’d go down to help wash the windows and cut the grass myself just to get those deputies on our streets permanently. Come to think of it…The Sterling Foundation cuts the grass in the Boulevard median and picks up litter…hmmm…chance for anxious citizens to put their working hands where their mouths are? After all, many people at the meeting kept asking to be told what we could do to help. Might be a better alternative than strapping on the heavy weaponry as you move around the town.
Quite frankly, I don’t know how much we ought to be worried about anyone sabotaging the substation. You saw the five sups up there, facing a big budget crisis but also desperate to find ways to show that they are responding to the demands of an outraged citizenry. Seems to me that the substation would be a gimme for them, especially with the promise of smiling faces in the newspaper as they turn the first shovel of dirt and later cut the ribbon. On the other hand, should the substation run into a roadblock at their level and should that news fall into the hands of the likes of those who were at the 23 September meeting, it could spell political doom for some of them. Delgaudio certainly wouldn’t buy into it, and I doubt seriously if York or Buckley would either. Even McGimsey might face beaucoup difficulties with her constitutents over something like that. Given that Ashburn is already feeling the crime spillover, we could probably count on Waters as well, maybe even Miller if he is halfway serious about seeing gang graffiti in the Dulles District. What we have to do is make the substation one of the proverbial “third rails” of Loudoun politics.
September 24th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Capt Fry (sp?) who will be in charge of the new substation in Sterling Park spoke at my HOA annual meeting tonight. He confirmed that the BOS cut funding for all non-deputy employees at the substation. So, the deputies will still be able to use it for office space, detaining people they arrest, etc. It will not be open to the public for administrative purposes like fingerprinting (some people get them for security clearances or Form 4’s), retrieving a police report on a traffic accident, etc. until there are people to handle the administrative work.
The current date it’s expected to open is January, 2010.
September 24th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
You better get your tomcat behind off of that computer, like right now !
September 25th, 2008 at 2:37 am
Like Wanda Jackson says:
“Stand back now take a good look tell me do you like what you see
I’m gettin’ better even close friends know the change in me
It didn’t take long cause I learned fast tell me is this the way you want me to be
It’s too late to turn back you must accept me for you created me
Where you go I tag along I followed you from right to wrong
You wanted me to live your life and you only live at night
Creator look me over tell me am I more than you expect me to be
You made me over you must accept me for you created me
You made me over you must accept me for you created me”
September 25th, 2008 at 2:37 am
Sterling Resident, did Captain Frye give any guestimate on how long it might take before he will have people to handle the admin work? Did he express any thoughts on how a lack of civilian staff might affect the interim quality of actual police work in the substation area? Will he still have the six projected road patrol deputies and five projected criminal investigators (4 plus a sgt in charge)?
From your post, I would deduce that the planned electronic link between the substation and the judge in Leesburg is still in the works so deputies won’t always have to make the trek to Headquarters with low-level detainees. Surely a civilian tech will have to be there to run it. The paperwork for the deputies shouldn’t be too much of an issue. They can already file their reports via computer links so they don’t have to go back to the office to work on them after a shift. But, just how low will the civilian staffing be? Absolutely zero? Any room for auxiliary cops or even volunteers to help out in the interim?
September 25th, 2008 at 6:47 am
Wolverine, I would think that transporting detainees is probably a Deputy resposibility regardless of staffing.
On a lighter note I got a laugh out of the name Capt Fry, and am hoping to get a Sgt Burger and Deputy Soda on the side.
September 25th, 2008 at 6:51 am
Wolverine - Cap Frye (thanks for correct spelling!) said that there would be no admin staff until the BoS provided funding for them. He didn’t address your other questions, probably because they weren’t asked.
He did discuss video-conferencing with the magistrate in Leesburg so that low-level offenders could be processed and released in Sterling, thus keeping the deputy in the east end of the county rather than travelling to and from Leesburg w/ the offender in his car (and thus, unavailable for emergency calls) for several hours during his shift.
Using auxiliary cops and/or volunteers wasn’t addressed. I don’t know if they even can use volunteers. The people working there will have some access to sensitive information and thus should have some kind of background investigation done on them.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I don’t live in Sterling (live in Western Loudoun), but I did have a conversation with Sheriff Simpson, and part of his problem is he has 70 plus positions unfilled, and the County has all these personnel rules, where he cannot even interview an applicant until there are a group of applicants to interview together–consequently, applicants never get interviewed, and give up to take other jobs. You should talk to him about this. Also, his budget was one of the few that was decimated, showing you the Board’s priority for public safety. They can find hundreds of thousands of dollars to litigate against the likes of Milari Madison over her plans to build in an historic district, hundreds of thousands of dollars litigating to delay a six lot subdivision for just a few years to “preserve” an Agricultural District (that allowed the subdivision any way, according to Judge Horne) and countless other ways they waste money. Right now they are fighting with a couple who have three goats on about 4 acres, claiming anyone who wants to have animals in agriculturally zoned land who has less than 5 acres must apply for an expensive and time consuming (public and staff time) special exception process–total waste of time and money. They live in an Agricultural zone, why can’t they have three goats? This Zoning staff has time to ask for the inspection of and issue a letter regarding a less than 48 square foot chicken coop less than 5 feet tall in a Ag district, that they say did not have a zoning permit (the structure was 40 years old, when no zoning permits were required,) harrass homeowners in western loudoun for 18 months, who want to replace a few rotten floor boards in a front porch (which happens to be in an historic district) when the replacement is the exact same materials, size, color, etc… Why did they cut the sheriff’s budget? You all need to talk to him to figure this out–he would like more sheriffs on the street, but there is some grudge against him, and he has been thwarted by this Board… really think you should talk to him, because I do believe he will try to help you…
September 25th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Sally, That is a strange way of fielding applicants. Can’t Simpson petition to change the hiring procedures in his own department, and if not, why? I’m not sure why he isn’t screaming from the rooftops about this, it sounds like a serious impediment to hiring.
September 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Sally’s comments about Simpson are most interesting. I knew there were a number of positions open in the Sheriff’s Office and could never quite figure why they couldn’t close that gap. Elsewhere on the net I have encountered numerous queries from current cops and criminal justice students in other states about the possibilities of getting positions with the Sheriff’s Office in Loudoun. The response from locals in the know was always very positive in terms of pay, benefits, training, working conditions, job openings, etc. Probably the only negative was finding affordable housing in LC itself — possibly being resolved now by the short-sales and drop in home prices.
From Sally’s comments, it now looks to me like Simpson may be having problems with some kind of affirmative action requirement or something similar when it comes to filling his vacant slots. Sally, was he any more specific about why he was required to do group interviews?
Much of what we are seeing at the moment just does not compute. On Tuesday, we had a room full of angry citizens, a number of whom stated explicitly a fear for their own lives and the lives of their families. Facing them were five supervisors making all kinds of declarations of empathy and vowing that they would find a way to help, including another look at public safety funding requirements. Yet, somewhere in the background is this government mechanism already slashing the public safety budget. It would seem to me that truth and logic are no longer players at any level of government in this country.
Given 9-11 and all the frantic changes made after that in our national counterterrorism programs, one would have thought that this country had finally learned a hard lesson about proper attention to priorities. Now we seem to have some kind of negative game going on at the micro level concerning the safety of the citizens on the streets of Eastern Loudoun. Do we as a people never learn our lessons? What is it going to take to get the representatives and the rest of the people in this county to wake up? An American teenager from Park View High School lying in the shopping center parking lot with a bullet in his body? If so, this country and this county are in a sad mental state.
September 25th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Steve Simpson is very upset about the personnel rules that are being used to stop him from even interviewing applicants, but the county holds all the cards. Some have speculated that there is a bias inside the county government building towards a police force, and that they are intentionally trying to undermine the Sheriff and discredit him as effective law enforcement, and there is NO DOUBT that he got the shortest end of the stick when it came to the budget process last year–they decimated his budget, and at the same time gave the Waterford Foundation a ton of money for a sign (I remember being shocked at the time how much money it could cost to design a sign) and increases for tourism budget, and of course the polo match…lots of (in my opinion) completely discretionary $$$s–but they really cut his budget.. He will talk to you and tell you exactly what his problems are with the county bureaucracy (and politics to thwart him from doing his job.) It did not have to do with affirmative action, just personnel rules requiring a certain county staff review and gathering a certain number of applicants to start the interviewing process (to save money? not sure why they would do this…)
September 25th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
By the way, it was my small 6 lot subdivision that I litigated to have approved. I think the County spent about a half a million dollars fighting my approval (it was recently approved after Judge Horne ruled I had a right to go forward last spring.) I FOIA’d their expenses, because the county had hired an outside firm to fight me, and in the month of February 2008 alone, that firm billed the County $61,000. The trial was a four day trial because that outside attorney objected to every word out of my mouth (I was pro se) and had to be continued more than once, but the trial was finally completed in April 2008, after finally beginning in March 2008. The county was ridiculous at trial (just my opinion), and their biggest strategy was simply delay. This is how our government spends its time, picking on individuals who they think cannot defend themselves…some citizens have lots of clout to stop things like small family subdivisions they don’t want, and the county goes all out spending literally millions with novel theories, fighting for some of these all powerful residents…you people have no idea how “some” people in the west get the government to lean on individuals… we have seen it time and time again with minor issues in some of the historic districts… I wish all of you could see the house plans that Milari Madison has been trying to build for about 5 years now, and you would scratch your head–they look very “historic” and appropriate to me, but she has been litigating pro se, also in front of Judge Horne, for years now. The priorities of this County are completely upside down, and out in Western Loudoun, the laws are stretched, people are fined and threatened with criminal prosecution, and really leaned on–unfairly. So it is hard to understand why they will not do anything for Sterliing…I think they feel confident picking on pro se litigants, and regular individuals, but have a hard time taking on anyone that they think might have money–that the county staff might be worried that some Hispanic group will bring some big lawsuit if they make a mistake, so they just close their eyes and pretend there are no zoning violations… I used to think Melinda Artman hated Mr. Delgaudio because she is openly gay, and wondered why Scott York would not insist on more, but I really cannot explain the difference in the way the zoning ordinance is enforced East to West…
September 25th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
This is an important perspective you’re giving us, Sally. Thanks.
Considering how this BOS right off the bat reversed themselves on the illegal hiring legislation, and that the Zoning admin. has been allowed to make a mockery of our local regulations (and - hmm - hearing Scott York say we need better laws from Richmond when those laws were passed LAST YEAR) …. the pieces are definitely fitting together of a BOS which is committed to encouraging illegal aliens to come here and Sheriff’s Office be damned.
I tell you though, if Sheriff Simpson was a slightly better communicator it would make things a lot easier for those of us who are trying to put pressure on the BOS. Not that he has to say they are crooks and weasels, but don’t go on and on about how things are not as bad as they seem and he’s doing all he can do. He gives the impression if it was up to him everything would stay the same.
September 25th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
A deputy who was here a couple weeks ago told me that although there were a significant number of vacant positions which if filled might provide greater coverage down here in the Park, there wasn’t even one applicant enrolled for the upcoming training class. I’d be very interested to learn more on this.
sally: I wondered what zoning was doing that prevented it from investigating my complaints about the flop house next door during the last 4 years. Now I know. With the hundreds of people who have lived in that stye, I wouldn’t be surprised if goats were boarding too. I only wish the tenants would let them out in the yard once in a while to eat up the tall grass so the county wouldn’t have to pay contractors to deal with it.
September 25th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
You need to talk to Steve Simpson privately, because publicly he is not going to bite the hand that feeds him (the BoS) and he is completely ham strung by personnel rules to even interview applicants. He told me that he had encouraged a certain well qualified person to apply, and that months later he ran into that person and asked him why he did not apply, and was told that the man did submit an application but never heard back from the County, no interview could ever be set up, so he took another job (I think with Ffx Co police dept.) I know some of you did not support Mr. Simpson for Sheriff, but my feeling is he is a true professional, and he will do whatever he can to help you–but speak to him privately. On the zoning front, that is pure politics, and there is no reason why they cannot enforce the Zoning Ordinance, fine people, threaten them with criminal prosecution, etc, just like they do to people with perfectly maintained homes who want to replace a roof or a few rotten floor boards in the historic district, or someone with a neat little farm, new fencing, someone in charge of the Goat Club for the 4H…out in the Western part of the county, where they are fond of stretching the laws, and even making up things to stop people from doing what they want to do, or have already done.
September 25th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Give her another post or two, and ‘ol miss Mann will be right out there to the 2000 word essays she’s famous for. Joe….Told you so.
September 25th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
“was told that the man did submit an application but never heard back from the County”
Think I might apply and see if the county contacts me..
https://www.jobaps.com/ldn/sup/BulPreview.asp?R1=09&R2=U161&R3=006
September 25th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Dean, I have looked at your new blog, and good job. I like what you have there. Have you heard about the zoning deal with the 4H leader and three goats? You should talk to York about it–huge waste of taxpayer $$$’s–to make them apply for a SE–supposedly the county staff wants them to remove the manure daily offsite.. I think they have about 4 acres, very neat little farm, new fencing, and she leads the 4 H goat club…why does someone like that have to apply for a special exception? They are saying “agricultural” uses are no longer allowed unless you have at least 5 acres, not even hobby or pet animals, not one or two chickens, etc…not even if you have an existing barn,,, complete waste of time and money, and staff resources–with public hearings in front of the Planning Commission and the Board–can’t you do anything to help?
September 25th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I tried to help back in the last election. Clem-Burton held no such descriptions. The rural economic lot size was set at 7 acres, IIRC. This left more land to divy up to sudivisions and would help additional houses to be put out here. Previously, under the effort of the 1999-2003 Board, the non-conforming lots were grandfathered under the plan we wanted readvertised and reimplemented.
In stepped Tulloch and Staton, who (after silencing Clem somehow- seriously…he literally stopped e-mailing me two weeks before the vote)ran right over the Clem-Burton Plan after ‘ol Jim Clem decided not to vote in support of his own plan.
York didn’t screw the 4 acre owner….Tulloch, Snow, Staton, Clem and Delgaudio did.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
I did not elaborate…. under Clem-Burton, the REL was set at 15 acres with no mandatory size for existing operations.
Under the replacement legislation, Tulloch/Staton implemented 7 acre REL, and included language that forbade smaller operations because of the animal housing had to remain so many feet from a property edge, and the house. This was something that the county deemed could not be worked feasibly on less than 7 acres.
September 25th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Dean, this is a lot that existed way before the down zoning, and it was not until just recently that the zoning office has decided you cannot have any animals on less than 5 acres. They say that this is to conform to the land use rules, but this family is not asking for any land use tax break…even in Ffx county you can have up to two horses on 1.79 acres, but in Western Loudoun no more animals unless you have at least 5 acres…or apply for a special exception…this is not something the last board did, this is something new–a zoning determination by Melinda Artman this year…saying agricultural uses are not allowed on Agriculturally zoned land unless you have at least 5 acres, even if you just have a few chickens or goats or sheep or rabbits or a pet donkey or pony–it is simply bizarre…and a huge waste of time and money.
September 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Sally said: I know some of you did not support Mr. Simpson for Sheriff, but my feeling is he is a true professional, and he will do whatever he can to help you–but speak to him privately.
Sally, what’s wrong with this statement?
Answer this question, why does anyone have to speak in private to Sheriff Simpson in order for him to be a professional.
Does this mean now at his 3rd term Simpson is only being professional in private meetings. Is this what went wrong during the last 8 years in Loudoun County and nobody knew that was the key to getting the job done.
Well, lets HAVE every Sterling Resident and then some call ahead for a private gripe session with the Sheriff SIMPSON: bring your lists of fix me NOTS and see what gets done.
September 25th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Sally, I’m not going to retype this many more times for you to overlook …
“Under the replacement legislation, Tulloch/Staton implemented 7 acre REL, and included language that forbade smaller operations because of the animal housing had to remain so many feet from a property edge, and the house. This was something that the county deemed could not be worked feasibly on less than 7 acres.”
Thus, in her position as Zoning Admin, Melinda Artman HAS THE JOB of enforcing this new mess.
Thank Tulloch/Staton for pushing it next time you see ‘em.
September 25th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
[…] Here’s what happens when elected officials ignore citizen demands that the law is enforced: Eastern Loudoun County is a tinderbox. Residents are on edge about the criminals in our midst and about our government agencies not doing their job. The citizens are paying close attention to the government and they are expecting more enforcement of our laws and regulations, quickly. […]
September 25th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
The claim that a zoning inspection requires a notification and schedule is misleading. That is true only when entry is to be made. Zoning inspectors do not need to make any schedule when they simply observe a suspected overcrowded home and observe the number of people entering and leaving, or when reviewing water usage to see if it is consistent with overcrowding. Stories about schedules are foot-dragging excuses that need to be quickly brushed aside.
And zoning is not the only applicable law - building law also applies. The Virginia Uniform Building Code limits the number of people that can occupy and live in a residence, it makes requirements of window area, room entry and egress routes, etc, for given numbers of residents, etc. This is well known, and if your leaders are not telling you this, they may actually be obstructing justice.
It appears that the powers that be in eastern Loudoun County are blatantly anti-enforcement. Unresponsive elected leaders need to be voted out of office, and reticent county employees need to be replaced.
AND - the new leaders need to make noise at the state and federal levels. We keep hearing that illegal labor and illegal immigration are state and federal issues… but somehow, year after year, we see very little effort to call on state and federal leaders to act, and even when bills are submitted, our state representatives keep happily coming back with no results - and that needs to change, now.
We ought to be hearing a lot of calls for state and federal action, and we ought to be electing local, state and federal leaders who will take action, and voting out leaders who will not. You notice how both presidential candidates are anti-enforcement? It’s not an accident, you know.
September 25th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
“It appears that the powers that be in eastern Loudoun County are blatantly anti-enforcement.”
BINGO. Occam’s Razor, guys. The simple, clear interpretation is our local government is facilitating illegal immigration into our community. Starting with that premise, all the facts fall into place.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Melinda Artman left Loudoun County in August. There is no current zoning administrator, and Terry Wharton is acting zoning administrator. Some have speculated that Ms. Artman left because of unequal enforcement of the laws, enforcing some, not enforcing others, and worse, to accomplish political ends. All I am saying is that in the West, we sometimes feel like it is the Peoples Republic, laws are so strictly enforced and even made up to stop certain people. And it is just a mystery why nothing can get done in the East. I think the Sheriff is a professional, and you should talk directly to him, that in big meetings, a few words get twisted in the press, etc. You need to find out how to help him help you, and I doubt he will complain about personnel rules or infighting in a huge forum. Dean, for the last time, it has nothing to do with seven acres. It has to do with FIVE acres, and it is something new that Ms. Artman did just this year. People have always been able to have a few companion animals or to farm for personal consumption on less than five acres in the AR zones, but the rules have changed. Now unless you have more than 5 acres, you are only allowed to mow by right, and cannot farm or have any animals,,, no little plot or corn, no pony, no nothing. Frankly, it is completely overreaching, and the Board is looking at it right now. Ask your friend Scott York.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Huh. So who wants to apply for the Zoning Administrator position? I could be talked into taking a pay cut…
September 26th, 2008 at 7:24 am
sally - thank you very much for the perspective from western Loudoun. The information that you have posted here has been very enlightening. It looks like our current BoS’s policy is not only to encourage illegal immigration into the County, but also to underine the Sheriff’s office’s effectiveness to push their agenda of creating a county police force (which is more power for the county administration, go figure).
September 26th, 2008 at 8:43 am
You are welcome. I do hope my perspective is helpful.. Many of us in Western Loudoun would like the county to find something worthwhile to do with its time than always focus on us, blowing minor issues into million dollar lawsuits. The down zoning litigation is down to a fight with a handful of landowners over less than 50 extra lots–millions spent on this for something that makes no difference at all–no one will notice the extra fifty lots spread out over the 50,000 acres in the west…The County has spent a lot of staff time re doing all the historic district regulations in the zoning ordinance this year, inventorying every structure–including barns– in all the districts (the Goose Creek district alone is 10,000 acres, and there are many separate districts) and fighting with landowners about the most petty details. People are fighting to get out of these oppressive districts with seemingly endless administrative control over every little architectural detail or small change. They have plenty of money to litigate with outside attorneys, spending millions, mostly on western loudoun issues, but they have no money to hire more zoning inspectors or sheriffs to help Eastern Loudoun? Just makes no sense to me,, and if there is something I can do to help you all, I certainly will.
September 26th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Ah, it’s good to be a PWC resident now. Sorry you all are dealing with the illegals we t\have been encouraging to leave, but hey….path of least resistance and all that jazz, ya know?
If enough of you get pissed….truly pissed and start deluging your “elected” officials with calls and emails and show up at these public meetings with YOUR agenda, then pretty soon, the mess will belong to some other county, until our newly elected President grants amnesty, that is and makes espanol the official language of The United Continent of America.
September 26th, 2008 at 9:21 am
In Fairfax County in early 2007, the people rose up about blatant overcrowding, and Chairman Connolly suddenly talked about action and spearhead groups and such, as though he wasn’t aware of -anything- until that moment… but then, the people went back to sleep. More recently he made sure nobody talked about the illegal aliens pouring in from Prince William County, because he sure didn’t want anybody to notice or acknowledge that. And now he’s running for Congress. His motto ought to be “So long, suckers!”
The lesson is this: don’t let them sell you out, and then move on to higher office. Make them do their jobs. The longer they can drag their feet and do nothing, the worse your situation gets. Make no mistake, what they are doing is deliberate.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Sally, as is evidenced by every post you write, you are politically tone-deaf, and you see only what you want to see…..facts be damned. Ms. Artman (or the acting Admin) can only do WHAT THE SUPERVISORS gave them authority to do. And the Gang of Five laid theis squarely on the County administation books. It all rest directly upon Rural Economy Lots that were reduced from 15 acres to 7 acres, and the new regulations introduced in 2006 that did not exist prior to that yearby …..Staton, Tulloch, Snow, Clem and Delgaudio. As much as you’re in denial about that, it is fact. Ms. Artman (or the acting Admin over there now) HAS ZERO INPUT as to how they feel about it. They can only execute what they’ve been instructed to by that Tulloch/Staton Plan.
September 26th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Dean, why don’t you ask Mr. York about it. Ms. Artman made a determination this year that is being appealed to the BZA, and is also the subject of revising the zoning ordinance. It has NOTHING to to with the rural down zoning which INCREASED the size of the rural economy lots to 15 acres, and as you may recall, Staton and Snow voted against that–it was York, Waters, Burton, Kurtz and Tulloch who adopted the rural down zoning and the 15 acre rural economy lot. This has nothing to do with that, it has to do with interpreting the zoning ordinance to conform to the land use rules, which say you have to have 5 acres to qualify for land use–but they do NOT prohibit someone with 4 acres from having a few chickens, several rabbits and three goats in an agriculturally zoned district. You need to check your facts and stop calling me tone deaf–you don’t know what you are talking about.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
OK, I have many, many chickens that are pets to my kids (seriously)and also producers of eggs and meat for my family and friends. We also grow corn, tomatoes, peppers, beans, etc. I live on an acre. I am assuming that this new regulation does not apply to folks who have had animals on their less than 5 acres before it was passed. However, if this turns out to be retroactive and zoning shows up at my door I am going to purchase a home in Sterling Park (preferably close to Joe and Linda) and move in with the hubby, kids, dogs, chickens, and perhaps a cousin or two, where I will surely not be bothered by zoning officials.
September 26th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Laura - that would be an improvement over what is there now in some areas!
September 26th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
HA! You got that right, Laura.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
I’d say you need to read what actually passed, Sally.
We wanted 15 acre REL if we could not have the original 2003 plan readvertised and reinstated. Clem switched his vote in the last days before the vote occurred, did not back his own Burton-Clem plan, and it instantly became the Tulloch-Staton Plan, complete with 7 acre REL.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Not sure why you want to argue about Rural Economy Lots (which only come into play when someone is subdividing under the new rules–and there is no subdivision here, only the use of an existing lot.) The issue has to do with keeping small numbers of animals –not a business, but 4H animals–on a lot less than 5 acres–which has nothing to do with “rural economy lots.” As you know, agricultural uses on lots less than 15 acres are allowed, and has always been allowed. And people have always had animals on lots less than 5 acres. New “interpretation” this year, by Melinda Artman, after a neighbor complained about 3 goats, and a notice of violation issued, and appealed to the BZA.
What I am talking about is the extreme over enforcement of zoning in western Loudoun as compared with do nothing zoning enforcement in eastern Loudoun, and the money devoted to the extreme enforcement of our ordinances in western Loudoun. See link for Milari Madison’s house plans that the County has been fighting her from building since 2003. Why would the county spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting the construction of ONE home, when it could be hiring sheriffs and enforcing the zoning ordinance for many in eastern Loudoun. See the Madison’s house plans, and other approved plans and ask yourself why is our government spending so much to fight this and ask yourself if this is a wise expenditure of funds. /Users/Sally/Desktop/Madison Drawings.doc I am not sure if this link is working but I have Milari’s permission to reproduce it, and I think the citizens of this county should see how its leaders are wasting our money fighting ridiculous issues like stopping her from building a very nice home.
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:28 am
DHS illegals tipline 1 (866) DHS-2-ICE
Check this out! As if..
http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1135542.html