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	<title>Comments on: A different world view</title>
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	<description>updated, and a little more mellow</description>
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		<title>By: Brian Withnell</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-2/#comment-12748</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Withnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12748</guid>
		<description>While the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jul/15/alqaida.july7&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;data is old (2005)&lt;/a&gt;, and probably the percentages have shrunk (perhaps my 5% is accurate, hard to say) in 2005, many of the Islamic countries had significantly higher percentages than what I have guessed that support suicide bombings (15%). That was the lowest percentage, with some countries much higher. (Jordan was the highest sited, at 57% support suicide bombings.)

I still stand by my statement that all of Islam is not a threat, even in Jordan, 43% of the people there would have said suicide bombing was not acceptable. That does not mean that we should ignore the percentage that believe even suicide bombing is acceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jul/15/alqaida.july7" rel="nofollow">data is old (2005)</a>, and probably the percentages have shrunk (perhaps my 5% is accurate, hard to say) in 2005, many of the Islamic countries had significantly higher percentages than what I have guessed that support suicide bombings (15%). That was the lowest percentage, with some countries much higher. (Jordan was the highest sited, at 57% support suicide bombings.)</p>
<p>I still stand by my statement that all of Islam is not a threat, even in Jordan, 43% of the people there would have said suicide bombing was not acceptable. That does not mean that we should ignore the percentage that believe even suicide bombing is acceptable.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Withnell</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-2/#comment-12747</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Withnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12747</guid>
		<description>Zim,

The majority of southern whites did not support the klan, but that doesn&#039;t mean that the klan should not have been pointed out (and they were whites). Does that mean those that point out &quot;white supremacist&quot; are bigoted for pointing out the obvious?

You ignore the fact that post started with the claim that Islam is nowhere near homogeneous. The post started with the claim that there were plenty of Muslims that were not violent, that are different from and mostly dishonored by the violent Muslims that rant and rave. In fact, I even posted a wild guess of those that would be violent as only 5% of the group. You also missed that I stated that those groups that garner violence all deserve our watchfulness. You said: &quot;However, Brian’s attempts to imply that extremism is somehow endemic to Islam and that other kinds of extremism are not as worthy of our vigilance is simply bigotry pure and simple.&quot; Yet what I said was that vigilance needs to be practiced for a small percentage of a group. Your characterization is false ... endemic is far from what I stated, and is in fact contrary to my statements.

The fact that you don&#039;t seem to accept what is stated, but clearly believe that it is impossible for someone to be open and clear without a hidden motive seems to imply something of your own mind. Do you believe that someone cannot disagree with you and still be honest? If so, you are much more intolerant than what I would have believed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zim,</p>
<p>The majority of southern whites did not support the klan, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that the klan should not have been pointed out (and they were whites). Does that mean those that point out &#8220;white supremacist&#8221; are bigoted for pointing out the obvious?</p>
<p>You ignore the fact that post started with the claim that Islam is nowhere near homogeneous. The post started with the claim that there were plenty of Muslims that were not violent, that are different from and mostly dishonored by the violent Muslims that rant and rave. In fact, I even posted a wild guess of those that would be violent as only 5% of the group. You also missed that I stated that those groups that garner violence all deserve our watchfulness. You said: &#8220;However, Brian’s attempts to imply that extremism is somehow endemic to Islam and that other kinds of extremism are not as worthy of our vigilance is simply bigotry pure and simple.&#8221; Yet what I said was that vigilance needs to be practiced for a small percentage of a group. Your characterization is false &#8230; endemic is far from what I stated, and is in fact contrary to my statements.</p>
<p>The fact that you don&#8217;t seem to accept what is stated, but clearly believe that it is impossible for someone to be open and clear without a hidden motive seems to imply something of your own mind. Do you believe that someone cannot disagree with you and still be honest? If so, you are much more intolerant than what I would have believed.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolverine</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12744</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolverine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12744</guid>
		<description>I basically agree with Gergen&#039;s observation.  Unfortunately, David often fails to complete his statements by addressing both sides of an issue.  From what I saw in Minneapolis and from what I see on blogs all across this country, it is fully evident that we have enough angry warriors on both sides of the political spectrum to further very much the disintegration of civility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I basically agree with Gergen&#8217;s observation.  Unfortunately, David often fails to complete his statements by addressing both sides of an issue.  From what I saw in Minneapolis and from what I see on blogs all across this country, it is fully evident that we have enough angry warriors on both sides of the political spectrum to further very much the disintegration of civility.</p>
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		<title>By: zimzo</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12743</link>
		<dc:creator>zimzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12743</guid>
		<description>I am well aware of the problems of Muslim extremism. I do live in a city that has borne the brunt of it more than any other place in America. However, Brian&#039;s attempts to imply that extremism is somehow endemic to Islam and that other kinds of extremism are not as worthy of our vigilance is simply bigotry pure and simple. Frankly, at this moment I am just as terrified of the irrational anger that is evident at McCain rallies and apparently I&#039;m not the only one:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=12105

DAVID GERGEN: I think one of the most striking things we’ve seen now in the last few days. We’ve seen it in a Palin rally. We saw it at the McCain rally today. And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is this free floating sort of whipping around anger that could really lead to some violence. I think we’re not far from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am well aware of the problems of Muslim extremism. I do live in a city that has borne the brunt of it more than any other place in America. However, Brian&#8217;s attempts to imply that extremism is somehow endemic to Islam and that other kinds of extremism are not as worthy of our vigilance is simply bigotry pure and simple. Frankly, at this moment I am just as terrified of the irrational anger that is evident at McCain rallies and apparently I&#8217;m not the only one:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=12105" rel="nofollow">http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=12105</a></p>
<p>DAVID GERGEN: I think one of the most striking things we’ve seen now in the last few days. We’ve seen it in a Palin rally. We saw it at the McCain rally today. And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is this free floating sort of whipping around anger that could really lead to some violence. I think we’re not far from that.</p>
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		<title>By: jacob</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12741</link>
		<dc:creator>jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12741</guid>
		<description>Give a zimzo an inch and he bites your hand,
My point is that there are 1000&#039;s of Madrasas teaching that Jews are pigs and Christians are NOT to be befriended.  Furthermore in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and elsewhere in the Arab world the public schools teach this crap along with the protocals of Zion and other trash.

Zimzo, deal with this: sharia law does not allow for equal rights, even in theory, between Muslim and non-Muslim, man and woman.  Chatel slavery is okey dokey.  

You, and your big mouth live in a society that emerged from a Christian perspective regarding tolerance.  There is nothing in the new testament or even the old testament that encourages war with ones neighbor.  That is not the case with Islam and the Koran.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give a zimzo an inch and he bites your hand,<br />
My point is that there are 1000&#8217;s of Madrasas teaching that Jews are pigs and Christians are NOT to be befriended.  Furthermore in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and elsewhere in the Arab world the public schools teach this crap along with the protocals of Zion and other trash.</p>
<p>Zimzo, deal with this: sharia law does not allow for equal rights, even in theory, between Muslim and non-Muslim, man and woman.  Chatel slavery is okey dokey.  </p>
<p>You, and your big mouth live in a society that emerged from a Christian perspective regarding tolerance.  There is nothing in the new testament or even the old testament that encourages war with ones neighbor.  That is not the case with Islam and the Koran.</p>
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		<title>By: zimzo</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12739</link>
		<dc:creator>zimzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12739</guid>
		<description>My point is that singling out Muslims when it is a minority of them who are extremist is bigoted. There are plenty of non-Muslim extremists committing violent acts but you ignored them in your post because your agenda was to sow fear and prejudice against Muslims. Calling me a &quot;biased, bigoted, liberal&quot; does not absolve you from the charges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point is that singling out Muslims when it is a minority of them who are extremist is bigoted. There are plenty of non-Muslim extremists committing violent acts but you ignored them in your post because your agenda was to sow fear and prejudice against Muslims. Calling me a &#8220;biased, bigoted, liberal&#8221; does not absolve you from the charges.</p>
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		<title>By: jacob</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12737</link>
		<dc:creator>jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12737</guid>
		<description>zimzo,
w.r.t. 39: fair enough</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zimzo,<br />
w.r.t. 39: fair enough</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Withnell</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12736</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Withnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12736</guid>
		<description>zim,

Your biased, bigoted, liberal invectives mean nothing to me. Islam is not just this country, it is a world-wide phenomena, the FBI only tracks things inside this country. And you are also thinking that this is only about terrorism. It isn&#039;t. Violence on the part of Islamic fundamentalists is not different from other violence in many ways, but to deny it exists is putting your head in the sand.

Some things already have happened in the U.S., others we should look at what happened in other places that could happen here in our future. In England, there are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574694/Bishop-warns-of-no-go-zones-for-non-Muslims.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;no-go&quot; zones&lt;/a&gt; for non-Muslims. I have friends that went to England about six months ago, did not know how bad things had turned, and were accosted as they walked down the street because his wife was not wearing a head covering.

In the U.S., there have been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391531,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;honor killings&lt;/a&gt; in which women were murdered, not as a terrorist crime, but as part of a culture that is steeped in intolerance. Not that murders don&#039;t occur in other contexts, but to ignore this is to be blind to changes happening in our own back yard. Denying it exists, or minimizing it is no different than southern whites denying discrimination against blacks or minimizing other violent acts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zim,</p>
<p>Your biased, bigoted, liberal invectives mean nothing to me. Islam is not just this country, it is a world-wide phenomena, the FBI only tracks things inside this country. And you are also thinking that this is only about terrorism. It isn&#8217;t. Violence on the part of Islamic fundamentalists is not different from other violence in many ways, but to deny it exists is putting your head in the sand.</p>
<p>Some things already have happened in the U.S., others we should look at what happened in other places that could happen here in our future. In England, there are <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574694/Bishop-warns-of-no-go-zones-for-non-Muslims.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;no-go&#8221; zones</a> for non-Muslims. I have friends that went to England about six months ago, did not know how bad things had turned, and were accosted as they walked down the street because his wife was not wearing a head covering.</p>
<p>In the U.S., there have been <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391531,00.html" rel="nofollow">honor killings</a> in which women were murdered, not as a terrorist crime, but as part of a culture that is steeped in intolerance. Not that murders don&#8217;t occur in other contexts, but to ignore this is to be blind to changes happening in our own back yard. Denying it exists, or minimizing it is no different than southern whites denying discrimination against blacks or minimizing other violent acts.</p>
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		<title>By: zimzo</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12732</link>
		<dc:creator>zimzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12732</guid>
		<description>Brian, don&#039;t try to run away from your own words. If you look at the FBI&#039;s list of terrorist incidents, terrorism by Muslims is a very small fraction of the total. If you were really worried about terrorism and not just writing a bigoted anti-Islam screed you would have written about Christian terrorists who bomb abortion clinics and shoot abortion doctors, Christian groups like Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan that attack gays, blacks and Jews, Puerto Rican separatists or environmental and animal rights extremists. So spare us your attempts to dial back from your original bigoted post.

http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pdf/Terrorism2002-2005.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, don&#8217;t try to run away from your own words. If you look at the FBI&#8217;s list of terrorist incidents, terrorism by Muslims is a very small fraction of the total. If you were really worried about terrorism and not just writing a bigoted anti-Islam screed you would have written about Christian terrorists who bomb abortion clinics and shoot abortion doctors, Christian groups like Aryan Nations and the Ku Klux Klan that attack gays, blacks and Jews, Puerto Rican separatists or environmental and animal rights extremists. So spare us your attempts to dial back from your original bigoted post.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pdf/Terrorism2002-2005.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pdf/Terrorism2002-2005.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Withnell</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12729</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Withnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12729</guid>
		<description>What this thread suggests in total though is that if there is a violent contingent, it usually is not the whole of a group. But it does make sense to think in terms of know what is there. It would make perfect sense to know the IRA if you are in Northern Ireland, it would make perfect sense to know if there are radical Islamic terrorists attempting to infiltrate the U.S. And it certainly would make sense to know if any other group that espouses violence (even if the whole of them do not espouse violence) in order to protect society as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this thread suggests in total though is that if there is a violent contingent, it usually is not the whole of a group. But it does make sense to think in terms of know what is there. It would make perfect sense to know the IRA if you are in Northern Ireland, it would make perfect sense to know if there are radical Islamic terrorists attempting to infiltrate the U.S. And it certainly would make sense to know if any other group that espouses violence (even if the whole of them do not espouse violence) in order to protect society as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Withnell</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12727</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Withnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12727</guid>
		<description>Goofed on the country, but it was Islamic fundamentalism that required it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goofed on the country, but it was Islamic fundamentalism that required it.</p>
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		<title>By: el jefe</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12650</link>
		<dc:creator>el jefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12650</guid>
		<description>zimzo named a few, the civil war in columbia (and all the conflicts in latin america) do not involve muslims. one last thing to add about culture and islam...turkey, iran, the uae, indonesia, these are all very different cultures within islam. 

thanks jacob, though i never meant for the deut quote to lead to a serious discussion about polygomy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zimzo named a few, the civil war in columbia (and all the conflicts in latin america) do not involve muslims. one last thing to add about culture and islam&#8230;turkey, iran, the uae, indonesia, these are all very different cultures within islam. </p>
<p>thanks jacob, though i never meant for the deut quote to lead to a serious discussion about polygomy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12638</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12638</guid>
		<description>Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: zimzo</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12636</link>
		<dc:creator>zimzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12636</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t act as if there was moral equivalence. I just answered Jack&#039;s question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t act as if there was moral equivalence. I just answered Jack&#8217;s question.</p>
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		<title>By: jacob</title>
		<link>http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/comment-page-1/#comment-12635</link>
		<dc:creator>jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://novatownhall.com/2008/10/09/a-different-world-view/#comment-12635</guid>
		<description>zimzo,
The Christian side of the conflict in Africa is unarmed and it is a slaughter, you write as if there is a moral equivalence.  That is patently absurd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zimzo,<br />
The Christian side of the conflict in Africa is unarmed and it is a slaughter, you write as if there is a moral equivalence.  That is patently absurd.</p>
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