WURZELBACHER: Not right now at presently, but, you know, question, so he’s going to do that now for people who make $250,000 a year. When’s he going to decide that $100,000 is too much, you know? I mean, you’re on a slippery slope here. You vote on somebody who decides that $250,000 and you’re rich? And $100,000 and you’re rich? I mean, where does it end? You know, that’s – people got to ask that question.
“people got to ask that question”.
I hear you Joe, and I accept your challenge. I pledge to ask that question.
Who else will take the Joe The Plumber Pledge, “I too will ask that question” ?
It’s a very fair question, although I wonder if it will be persuasive.
Amazing the boomer generation is willing to sell out for health care and govt cheese.
Will we really need another taste of socialism to remember what makes the US unique?
Not with a bang, but with a wimper.
It is very unlikely that Obama can do what he wants to do by only increasing the taxes of households with incomes of $250k and up.
I think this is a great question, what will happen if only taxing these households does not sufficiently fund his enttitlements ? Will that giant sucking sound we hear be the sound of American business and investment capital moving offshore ?
I agree with Joe, Obama needs to be taken to task on this.
McCain says he’ll give each family, or is it each person, $5000 to shop for his own health insurance.
I defy anyone with average intelligence to shop for health insurance and really know what he’s getting. Imagine what people who can barely read would have to go through in order to spend the 5000 bucks wisely on health insurance. McCain would have to set up a special branch of government to aid and advise people.
AND, how far does $5000 go when it comes to buying health insurance, I wonder?
Geo
I wouldn’t call health care “govt. cheese”.
Geez Lovisa, You have managed to not only insult average Americans, but the poor and underpriveleged as well. Most people aren’t complete idiots, buying insurance is not brain surgery.
I am so glad I do not live in your world. I trust people to make decisions like insurance, health care, their families, schools, religion, military service, marriage, children, etc, etc.
The belief that people need to be led around by the nose by Gov’t weenies to make a decision is unbelievably naive and elitist at the same time.
You can sure tell who has not bought health insurance in a while can’t you ?
Those unable to make this decision, like some here, can do so as they do now, and stay with the plan offered by their employer.
$5K ? Looking at the pay stub I got today, a pretty long way…
Yes, Cathymac, I’m one of those dumb ones who can read but sometimes not grasp everything when it comes to a detailed description of insurance policies.
The poor and the underprevileged probably wouldn’t even
know where to find the necessessary info. Doubt very much that most of them have computers; doubt very much that most of them read the daily papers; some might not even literate. It happens, you know.
You’re right, most people are not idiots, but some make comments that sound as if they do not know about real life. You should go to a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter and converse with some of the customers and ask them what they would do if they were handed $5000 to go out and buy health insurance.
dans – “stay with the plan your employer offers …” That’s great — if you’re actually employed!
“The poor and the underprevileged probably wouldn’t even
know where to find the necessessary info. Doubt very much that most of them have computers; doubt very much that most of them read the daily papers; some might not even literate. It happens, you know.”
and exactly how does any of this change under Obama’s plan ?
It’s actually worse with Obama’s, if any of the above have kids, they may be subject to a fine.
What in’ell are you talking about? “a fine”! As far as I know there’s no fine for bringing a child into this world, no matter how rich, poor, dumb, smart, idiotic, illogical, ……. you are.
Sorry Lovisa, but I am not responsible for what you do, or do not know..
5) REQUIRE COVERAGE OF CHILDREN. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will require that all children have health care coverage.
NoVisa,
Seems you haven’t been reading the Obama site and his health plan. Look it up (and be quick about it before they change it to something else which is very likely). I believe that the government was talking about having classes (like ESL) and handing out paper and crayons so people would understand how to go about getting health insurance. Maybe they could even have an insurance hotline (the poor may not have computers but EVERYONE has a phone. That is some of the special payments in your phone bill.) You really do amaze me.
There once was a plumber named Joe,
Who asked about keeping his dough,
BO ran his mouth,
and his numbers went south,
now Barack ain’t winnin’ no mo’
**sent by a friend**
I don’t consider health insurance a “fine”.
Why shouldn’t it be required that every child will receive health care? That’s an investment for the future of our country just as much as required elementary education is.
Yes, Lovisa, Obama is going to require parents to provide insurance for their children or FINE them. Insurance for children is one of his priorities.And employers will be mandated to provide insurance to employees, or be fined.
Obama wants to magically reduce the cost of health care, and set up a big government insurance program that people can buy into—everyone would like to reduce the cost of health care, but Obama has no plan (other than to put records on the internet) just platitudes.. his idea of reducing the cost of health care is more likely than not telling doctors what they can charge. My former OB/GYN used to deliver babies, but stopped because the insurance companies did not pay him but $1800 per delivery, and that did not cover his costs. So he just stopped. When the gov’t mandates how much doctors can charge, then next step is government employed doctors… Right now there is a huge controversy about Lyme disease here in Loudoun, and most insurance companies will not pay for many of the diagnostic tests (cost $1500) that some doctors who specialize in Lyme think are necessary–the CDC has set standards, that insurance companies follow, and doctors are trying to get that changed. In the mean time, people who cannot afford to pay out of pocket for those tests continue to suffer… Free choice of doctors is very important.
Lovisa, we are talking about civil fines (hopefully not criminal fines) for failure of a parent to provide a child with health insurance or failure of a company to provide insurance for an employee. Civil fine, like a zoning violation fine…. for violating the law, that is Obama’s health insurance plan, make it mandatory or fine people. Question is, how is are we going to pay for it? At least McCain has a plan to pay for it, and the $5,000 is in addition to whatever your employer pays… or you can look around and buy private insurance in any state, unrestricted.
Like Joe the Plumber says, we need to get Obama to show us the fine print, on taxes, and on health care…
great post cmac, thanks !
this is pretty funny:
“It might be heartening to McCain to know that he has at least one vote in Democratic stronghold Lucas County, Ohio, but for one small fact. A download of the Lucas County voter rolls from the Ohio Secretary of State’s website lists four Wurzelbachers, two in Holland, but none of them named Sam or Joe or Samuel Joseph. There’s a Robert Lee and a Frank Edward Wurzelbacher, but no Joe.
Apparently, Joe the Plumber don’t vote.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/off-the-bus-reporter/joe-the-plumber-not-votin_b_135201.html
SP, you’re a day late, and a dollar short aren’t you ? I was reading that this has already been debunked.
The Internet is a big place, you can’t just stop reading when you find what appeals to you..
Lovisa, I fail to see how the poor or homeless are going to be any worse off by being eligible for a 5000$ health insurance credit. BTW, the credit gets sent to the insurance co when the plan is picked, very simple.
The poor (who are not illiterate or stupid) could probably be assisted in a variety of ways with their choices. Even the local libraries could have forms and information – just like registering to vote. The poor know how to use public transportation, libraries – and heck, they can even make it to the polls on election day without the help of the Democrats!
Sorry, but the homeless most likely will not seek insurance. You must not know much about the homeless in this country, you can’t get them to eat or seek shelter even when it is available, let alone sit down and pick an insurance plan. Most of them are mentally ill or drug users (or both) and transient. They stay on the street despite pleas from their families and counselors and drop out of programs designed to help them. If you do volunteer at soup kitchens, ask the staff if their “clients” will seek this benefit and you will get your answer.
As for your problem on insurance policies, nobody gets all the nuances of a health plan – not even the providers. Try being a go between with a doctor’s billing office and your insurance, neither of them know what the other is doing.
Lastly, Dan is right, no matter what your argument, the same problems exist with either BO or McCain’s plan.
Joe the Plumber voted in the priamries, what changed in OH since then – VOTER FRAUD by chance??????
Cathymac,
Had my own business for a while. Got my own health insurance. It took one night of google searches and another of reading to find a good plan. The way insurance works is you either pay for the risk up front in the form of large premiums or you pay for it later in the form of large deductibles. Either way the bill at the end of the year is the same. Which is the critical fact.
Back when I was looking at this health insurance ran about 15K in premiums for all the bells and whistles paid for up front. Or you could pay ~7.2K in premiums and then the deductibles kick in and IF you had a really bad year, you wind up paying about another 8K out of pock, for a grand total of … 15K per year.
There is no magic. If you take a policy for health care there is ALWAYS a maximum the insurer will pay. Say 5M in the case of something catastrophic like 90% burns in an auto accident that leaves you paralyzed. That is the real thing you are paying the company for, the catastrophe, not getting a sprain or even a break. Heart surgery and the like is another biggie you WILL need and is more likely than the top level catastrophe but that will run you ~250-400K. The actuarial tables are set up for the big ticket items, not going to the doctor for a flu shot.
oh, yea, I just sent en email to the Obama camp to ask the question :
” When’s he going to decide that $100,000 is too much, you know?”
First of all, jacob, you have to remember that you are not a moron. The leftists ARE morons, and so cannot be expected to do what you do.
Now, you raise an interesting point on reducing health care costs. When we have to run the money through the insurance companies, and the doctors have to file paperwork to pay for your checkups and minor injuries, the overhead skyrockets.
We do not buy car insurance that will cover changing our oil or our tires, so why would be buy health insurance that covers checkups? To get a reduced rate, we raise our accident deductibles to $1000 or so, and don’t even bother reporting anything less.
Somehow, the leftists think people are smart enough to buy car insurance, but are not smart enough to buy health insurance. Go figure.
Insuring ever child is a noble cause but I don’t remember having health insurance when I was a kid. I either went to the doctor for stitches or a mandated shot. The runny nose, rash, fever, cough, sneeze, etc. were all taken care of at home. It must have worked because I am still alive. Just having health insurance is enough of a case to abuse it. When that happens, the costs go up for all. Maybe just health insurance for emergencies only. The rest of the time, the parent can look it up on web-md.
i challenge joe the plumber to pay his taxes like everyone else…
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/mccain-planning.html
Lovisa,
My goodness, average people don’t know what they are doing? I have a lot more confidence in the average American, and I believe they can figure out what health insurance they can afford and will best suit their family’s needs without a government agent saying: “we’re from the government, we’re here to help.”
Just how many people do you think “can barely read” who won’t have anyone to help them?
As to how far $5000 dollars would go? That depends on what you buy. If you are young, healthy and only need to insure against large health care problems (perhaps a $5000 deductable policy) then you probably won’t need to pay much at all.
The real issue is that everywhere the government steps in, that area breaks. The economy is a prime example where the government steps in, forces non-market conditions, and the economy broke (thanks Dunn and Obama, you really did your job in regulating Fannie and Freddie).
The government can’t do things always best. The government is not better at solving problems (and shouldn’t be trying to solve problems) of individual families than those families are. There may be a *very* small population that needs someone to help them, but that is not the governments job.
There you go Lovisa, a google search and a coverage decision and wa-laa, you have a policy. Read JAcob’s post.
My husband had a catastrophic insurance plan before we got married – 70$/month! This was in 1992. I don’t know the rate of inflation for such policies, but I think 5K a year would put a dent in the cost. McCain’s plan for many people would cover just such policies, basically kepping people from losing everything they own or declaring bankruptcy.
ACTivist, you obviously do not have children. The schools want to see medical records, and there are required well baby checkups, every few weeks and then months as an infant, then once a year as the child gets older, and of course you cannot go to school without yearly proof of health and vaccinations. Right now, low income folks can get free care in Loudoun at our dept of health for their children. And we have been overwhelmed by illegal immigrants, who our health dept and hospitals serve, even if they cannot pay. Obama wants to force all families to purchase health insurance for children, because he says emergency room care (that is provided free to people without insurance) costs each person with insurance another $900/year. He wants to mandate everyone to have insurance for children. If you are employed by a “large” business, Obama wants that business to pay for the employee anyway. If you are employed by a small business, that business, according to what Obama said last night in the debate (something new) is exempt from providing insurance. If your employer does not provide the insurance, or if you are unemployed you must purchase it for your children, and he wants to make it less expensive to purchase…that is his plan. All children will be required to have the well baby and child check-ups.
“All children will be required to have the well baby and child check-ups.”
How did I and my siblings EVER survive our childhood?
ACTivist
You sound about my age, because we didn’t have health insurance when I was a kid; didn’t know the word.
Everybody got smallpox vaccination before starting elementary school. There were no other vaccines. (you can tell what vintage a person is if he has the “scar” of that shot)
IF you went to the doctor; he checked ears, throat, heartbeat, listened to lungs, hit your knee for reflex action and that was about it. But you went only if you were really, really sick. There was no anti-biotics, as I recall.
Look at all the vaccines kids are being shot up with these days, and they MUST have them in order to attend school. Every fall we read about schools trying to round up students for their annual immunization program. I’m all for it. No measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc. and most of all POLIO, the most dreaded decease until Salk and Sabin. My brother was one of the victims.
Medical expenses for children are high, but IMO, its in everyone’s interest to see that that they are getting the basics, no matter what.
Plumbers across America Unite! Apparently there are other Joe’s out there that share OH Joe’s point of view:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
I had health insurance when I was a kid — the U.S. Navy Doctors. My mom usually took us to civilian doctors and paid out-of-pocket. Now, the socialists/leftists want ALL of our hospitals to be the caliber of Walter Reed.
el jefe,
I would submit that the reporter that wrote that story in the Toledo Blade is not a reporter, at least not a licensed one !
This is an attempt at a smear, and you sucked it right up. In many states, a trade license is not required if your employer is a licensed contractor.
Speaking of health care, here’s a federal bailout that has gotten zero media attention :
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/10/01/mass_gets_106b_for_healthcare_insurance/
This is the same general plan as Obamacare, and it is not working absent federal subsidies.
Btw, no insurance ? pay a fine..
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-03-mass-healthcare_N.htm
And that lying sack of крап, Governor Deval “What did you expect from a Democrat?” Patrick, had this to say:
No, Governor, you are NOT able keep your commitments — we have to do it for you.
Pay a fine for NOT having insurance? Wow, someone ought to write a whole post not just a comment about this.
Lovisa and ACTivist, I have grown children, and grew up in the 1950’s, when we did have vaccines (not just polio) like Tetanus, Diptheria, etc…and regular required visits to the doctor, and the schools have always required health forms…for decades.
You guys sound like young people to me, who have never had children, and did not realize that your parents probably did have insurance. Did your parents have insurance on their cars? on their homes? life insurance? It is hard to believe your parents had no health insurance, unless you were desperately poor.
Sally,
) the boys would make fun of me but the girls were really tickled! My dad was a career Naval officer and, like Jack, we went to civilian doctors for most all our needs. States may have some differences in their proceedures but they never got real anal till my kids went to school. And we STILL don’t have mandatory delousing!
What are you going on about? I have 2 grown kids and grandkids. I know that the (state)schools require so much more than when I was a child. Did you not read my statement about “stitches or a mandated shot”? And, of course later on, SOS (you do know what that is, don’t you). We were required in SCHOOL to strip once a year for mandated health inspections and check-ups. I still remember that embarrassment (because I was unusually large in proportion
There was no such thing as health insurance when I was a kid. Our family never owned a car, not only because there was no gasoline available for non-military use during WWII, but also because we couldn’t afford one.
I have three children who also grew up in the 50s and the schools they attended in Palo Alto, Calif. checked vaccinations and administered them in the school, when needed. My seven grandchildren are fortunate enough to have health insurance because their parents can afford it. I wish all kids were as fortunate!
Sorry, Lovisa and ACTivist, I did not read your posts well enough.
Yes, the schools do require quite a bit these days. I just heard on the news that there is controversy about one public school system requiring flu shots. If you have looked at the cost of these vaccines, they are very expensive, some cost hundreds of dollars…you can easily spend $1000 per child each year on yearly required health check ups and vaccines (without insurance.) One thing the Govt’ could probably do cheaper– buy these vaccines in bulk, guarantee the drug companies against liability. It is the liability from lawsuits that has made the cost of drugs skyrocket, in part.
Obama is not specific in saying how he will pay for anything, or who will pay, except that big business must provide insurance for its employees, and parents must insure their children, or be fined. Many employers now offer an employee a choice: higher pay or more comprehensive health insurance. Some employees choose to have their spouse buy a family plan, so they would rather have more pay and no insurance through their company.
I think John McCain’s plan makes more sense, in that it offers the most flexibility for people to choose and to get what they think they need. If the $5,000 credit is for an individual, would a couple get $10,000? I think the government may be able to take some steps to help reduce medical costs (maybe they should insure doctors and lower the price that way, instead of having them face the ever escalating costs of their own malpractice insurance) but I do not think that Obama’s plan of fining /mandating employers and parents is the right way to go. Will we be reporting them to child protective services if they miss a check up, or a vaccine? if they are obese?
I know there are a lot of problems, and the uninsured are bankrupting our public hospitals, but I don’t like the national idea–i think competition is better, and people should be allowed to choose their doctors, question their treatment, and change doctors if they want.
“The Internet is a big place, you can’t just stop reading when you find what appeals to you..”
why not? That’s what everyone else is doing around here.