Just war, Palestine, Gaza and Israel


Some history:

Ancient history:

Abram, a.k.a. Abraham, from the city of Ur in what was most likely Persia, moved into the region as a nomadic tribal chief of a militaristic clan. As “chosen” people, his offspring were promised the land by God, and succeeded in taking it by force (if the Biblical accounts are correct, it was miraculous force more than anything else–God seeing to it that his promise was fulfilled more than militaristic prowess on the part of the Israelites). A state of Israel was established, and the Israelites inhabited the land, exterminated the people that lived there before them, and became a moderate power. They were less than faithful to the religion and fell out of disfavor, were overrun and deported to Babylon for a period of about 70 years. After those 70 years, they were allowed to return to their ancestral home, and became a subservient state. Sometimes serving one or another “superpower” of the time, it continued in this path until about 70 A.D. at which time it was again thoroughly wiped out by Rome and did not rise as a separate country of means for hundreds of years. During the 7th century, the area came under Muslim control, being under the control of different factions until the Ottoman empire took control in the 16th century.

Recent history:

That lasted until the 20th century; many of the Jews (those of the Israelites who were primarily of Judah) started returning to Israel. The area was under British rule for much of that time. Ultimately, the state of Israel was established by the United Nations in 1947. The land was divided; part was established as a Jewish state, part to remain Arab. The Jews agreed, while the Arabs did not. War resulted in 1948, and the cease-fire established boarders for the time being. (700,000 Palestinians fled, and much of the problem now reflects back to what of them…something like the Jews claim to the land from 2000 years ago.) Many of the Arab states refuse to accept a legitimacy for the state of Israel to exist (some of which could be from some Muslims’ religious beliefs that refuse to accept that land once conquered by Muslims can ever be anything but Muslim; the doctrine demands those lands must be reclaimed). The 1967 war started when Israel believed it was on the brink of an invasion with her access to the Red Sea cut off, UN peace keepers expelled, and troops amassed on her boarders. The pre-emptive strike was swift and decisive (you would almost think the war was of the same miraculous nature of millennia ago with Israel defeating its foes more rapidly than could be imagined otherwise). Israel ceased Gaza, the West Bank, Sinai, and Golan Heights as spoils of war.

Present:

Right now, Israel has long stated that Palestinians have a right to a homeland, but the reverse is not true. There are few Arab nations that have ever acknowledged Israel’s right to exist. The present conflict seems to be over what Israel will not accept (rockets being launched at their cities by people in Gaza with full complicity of the Government of Gaza).

Personally, I have little compassion for either side, but I would have to say that the Hamas leadership is being totally stupid. Israel is known for the fact that they will defend their citizens with overwhelming force. Pushing violence at Israel is a little like standing over a fire and pouring on gasoline to try to put it out. Those that want to destroy the state of Israel ought to get a life. They need to move on in life—in a sense, they occupied Israel for about two millennia, and now Israel is back—get over it and get on with life. Israel went through hard times, and they have put others through hard times as well. At this point, they are fighting for a national survival, but many nations do not survive. There are still some people that were more than likely around when Great Britain started the movement of Jewish people into the area; they have the greatest claim on the issues, but they tried war and lost. In the scheme of things, the Israelite nation is still in the throws of being born. The Arabs are trying to make sure the nation is stillborn. The problem is that Israel came out fighting harder and more effectively than those that had occupied her lands for thousands of years.

While I might think the Palestinians should move on, I also recognize they could say the same thing about the Jews. (They did not “move on” for the 2000 years they were dispersed!) Given that both groups are just as stubborn as each other, I don’t see this as ever ending. Neither side is going to give up; neither side is going to completely leave the area. (I do have to admit, the state of Israel did allow for a Palestinian people to have a homeland … it might not have been all the Palestinians wanted, but it was a homeland, and that is more than the Palestinians are willing to give Israel.) Hamas can end the present conflict tomorrow, all they have to do is acknowledge Israel and guarantee they will stop all rocket and mortar attacks coming from Gaza (even if it means prosecuting those that attempt to attack).

73 Responses to “Just war, Palestine, Gaza and Israel”

  1. “Jews are … not as persecuted … and never have been.”

    And never have been? I suppose the holocaust never happened.

  2. SPMM,

    If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were sensible with that last post on thin ice.

  3. Bobby Fontaine says:

    A lot of people think the holocaust was a Jewish conspiracy. Hitler’s grandfather was a Rothschild, one of the most powerful Zionists Jew families in the world.

    Really the question is do you think there is any such thing as secret society or do you think rich people have been sitting around jerking off for the past 5000 years? I mean really you gotta get passed that bullshit.

    The question should be more like are you a secret society denier?

  4. Ah, the false dichotomy: the only choices are rich people doing nothing (I’ll skip your sophomoric reference to masturbation) or a secret society. Certainly you can think of other things “rich people” (all rich people? some rich people? Do you think there is a Pluterday?)

    I *hope* you don’t really believe what you write.

  5. Wolverine says:

    ALL — Aw, shucks, Wolverine is just a big, loveable guy with a little higher threshhold for dealing head-on with the unusual. Some say it comes with the trade.

    Not easy to shock old Wolverine after all these years; but I must say that Bobby’s last post on Nazi control of the CIA is truly a classic woo-woo. Imagine. And silly me who always thought those East German machine guns at Checkpoint Charlie were the real thing. If I had only known then what I know now…

    I do, however, owe an apology to Bobby for going too hard after that antiperspirant and undie thing. Darn it. It seemed so easy I just couldn’t help myself. It must be that I misread those public posts of his on that subject. (There’s more than just one out there.) Sorry, Bobby. I should have known better than to talk about such private things on the public internet. Shame on me.

    One thing before I go, Bobby. Clyde Novitz asked me to pass you a message. He is royally pissed at you. He says YOU made him write that 4 September 2008 post on Canna Zine about the 9/11 victims under HIS name. He said that, since you were unable to find any video of victims falling or jumping from the Twin Towers, you told him it was likely the Twin Towers were really empty and that the two planes, also empty, were being flown by remote control. Boy, Bobby, when I plugged in for him that You Tube site entitled “9/11: Remembering the Jumpers”, poor Clyde about went through the roof. I think, Bobby, that you have some explaining to do when you get home.

    And Bobby: TILT!

  6. dans says:

    Yeah Bobby, the secret society. they are watching you right now as you know about them and their agenda. Look out your window, they are there, in the still of the night, watching your every move. Waiting, biding time until the orders come down to finish the mission.

    The MTBE cocktail ? That was no accident, that was them. They knew you then as well as they know you now. They are waiting, and will come after you when the time is right. I bet that they have even bugged your home, look hard, they are there.

  7. Wolverine says:

    All this crap, and now I find out our cult leader is off in Vegas living it up. If that don’t beat all!!!

  8. Dans,

    Hasn’t anyone told you it isn’t a good idea to bait an unstable person?

  9. Rachelfriend says:

    My question is, how many times did Fontaine and Novitz vote? Boy, does this explain so much.

  10. Bobby Fontaine says:

    It’s so easy to rake this country over the coals time after time because there are so many who refuse to simply look at facts. I don’t mean to ever say that facts equal the appearance of impropriety that they suggest. It’s just that if facts, such as there has never been a showing of Americans falling or jumping from the rooftops of the World Trade Centers on September 11, nor a debate about whether or why it has never been shown even as we geared up for a war that many have not always fully supported, but if facts were taken seriously no matter what they suggest to insure we always get to the bottom of whatever is really going on. There could be many explanations for why we never saw those gruesome images but none have ever been given. But whenever I raise this question, I get responses like yours.

    Like with MTBE, you turn how our nation’s groundwater has been polluted with an additive to gasoline that has never been tested but is made from carcinogens into joke. You are simply demonstrating what is wrong with this country and why the world is falling apart, because a simple and obvious question can’t get a simple answer. It tells whoever wants to screw with Americans to go ahead and do it because we will simply laugh it off while the few that figure out what you are doing to us will be pushed to the edge of any mainstream dialogue on the topic by the local jock wearing beer clubbers. This sends a message to anyone thinking about opening their mouth about anything serious to clam up and go back to their cubicle, the football game is on and no one cares.

    And I get that. I always drive people crazy if I try to watch a sports event with them because I am always talking about something serious. It is like in order to be a sports fan, you have to become totally immersed in whatever flavor the season presents be it baseball, basketball, hockey, and the almighty football and Super bowl playoff game.

    No shit, this is a fascinating topic, I am glad you brought it up. You’re actually complaining to Joe because the Super bowl is coming up while I have taken over this website with talk about history and politics, Barack Obama, masturbation and
    the economy.

    See what you guys do is brief your way through the front sections of the news paper so you can get to the sports section. In fact you probably just watch your local evening news because you like to see the reports of Black on Black crime where you also get a brief report on national and world news. Then you read the sports section of the paper while you look at anyone reading the front section like they are geeks.

    But in order to enjoy sports without distractions, you need to feel all is good on the home front, that we are the greatest nation in the world and can do no wrong. Yeah, all the people I have ever know who can’t bring themselves to take the take of the world seriously know the sports section of the newspaper better than they know their jobs, wives, or children. I just never got it. I think you go there to hide from reality. I have looked at it over and over and found nothing there, except a lot of money to be made off of men who spend their time together worshiping each other. It’s really a homoerotic kind of thing where men come away from their daily dose of athletic events with this feeling like they are more than intelligent animals but some kind of Godly force above every other known form of reality in the universe.

    Really I think it helps you deny the values of woman, even nature. I think a lot of men are afraid of women and hide from them huddled together in sports arenas trying to forget that as strong and as smart as men think they are, they know they could never have the courage to give birth to a child. Its really weird because you could never be forced to try. Its like here we are floating around in the universe on this little rock having evolved from bacteria, fungus, and algae where we have surpassed all the other life forms by any scale of measure but still we have no clue what we are or why. Yet men have always found endless ways to separate themselves from their women putting themselves so far above them that we call society a “mans world.” And this is only because men have stronger upper body strength and are prone to rage and insane collective acts of violence.
    So if men are not placed at the top of the pecking order, they could go crazy and destroy everything, which they do all the time making our history as a race pretty much about that, how men have murdered and slaughtered each other and their women and children looking to be recognized as Superior animals to all others since civilization began.

    But the truth is that women have a lot of qualities that men can never compete with so reality pretty much puts men and women on equal footing, except that men seem to be willing to accept destroying the world if they are not seen as top dogs. So in effect, men have kidnapped the world and terrorized the human race into submission under their rule.

    The way I see it, if the way to become an intelligent animals is to evolve through a kind of reincarnation process where the spirit slowly learns how to use energy so to one day understand the universe through the mind of God, we would go from being perhaps a wild creature to a domesticated one, a dog or a cat, to then becoming a human being. But see who would you become first, a man or a woman.

    To me, I think God would want to insure success in your sprit evolving to use their brain to one day come to understand how and why we are what we are, what He is and all that, so first He would make you a boy so you could run and frolic, get a feel for your new mind, body, and soul before you had to take your intelligent life seriously. Then you would be reborn a girl who would grow into a women who truly has the closer nature to God in Her responsibility towards giving life and securing its future. Then perhaps you come back as a man if you make that far by passing all Gods tests of time. This allows you an easy passage through life as an intelligent animal without the burden overbearing men who have to think they are superior to women always wanting to fuck you, get you pregnant, and force you to do their chores for them because they need to be mothered through their first pass at becoming a God. This way, you can begin to assimilate towards the higher questions life has laid out the answers for in previous lifetimes.

    Then there are the men who go through their initial pubescent life where upon death, they find out that they are to become women in the next life so they can learn what being strong is truly all about. And they cry and scream scratching and clawing at the
    arteries of Gods heart as they pass through Him on their way to becoming women where they cause such a commotion in the heavens that they have to be ejected back to their last life forms being born again as males who perpetually and collectively support each other in a stand against nature as if it is a battle between good and evil for them to never have to evolve to a higher life form.

    From there, comes a world full of jocks and solders who hold the human race at bay with their refusal to climb that last steps on their journey to heaven clogging up the path for the rest of us. But now is the end of that struggle as you have held back from expressing your cosmic orgasm for so long that the pipes have backed up to the point where we are all going to bust out of Gods womb at one time with everything breaking and being fixed at the same time.

    The end of the world is here fellas and you are going to witness it whether you want to or believe it or not. So pull up your jockstraps and fill them pitchers of beer boys, your getting ready to learn what boners and balls are really used for. But don’t worry, the real fireworks won’t start til after the Superbowl.

  11. Stay Puft Marshmallow Man says:

    “A lot of people think the holocaust was a Jewish conspiracy. Hitler’s grandfather was a Rothschild, one of the most powerful Zionists Jew families in the world.”

    oooooooh man, you just broke through the that ice.

  12. Bobby Fontaine says:

    “oooooooh man, you just broke through the that ice.”

    What is that supposed to mean?

  13. jacob says:

    IT means you are sounding like an anti-Semitic bigot — conspiracy nut

  14. jack says:

    Fontaine — I just took the liberty of “unapproving” your last comment.

    Keep the language G-rated.

  15. Bobby Fontaine says:

    I disagree with there being anything wrong with it. But I respect your opinion to think otherwise.

    My defense, and considered as I chose my wording being careful to delete anything that was truly offensive, is that this thread is old and dead expect for the few who the comment was intended to be read by. And it was not meant to be insulting or degrading but simply thought provoking. In fact its content leaves much open to be debated in a serious way by adults as well as younger minds.

  16. jack says:

    There were several four-letter words referring to sexual organs and what one does with them.

    Your defense is ludicrous on its face, because by commenting you make the tread alive and draw attention to it in the “Recent Comments” column.

  17. ACTivist says:

    Bobby-boy, I just can’t take it anymore.

    “My defense, and considered as I chose my wording being careful to delete anything that was truly offensive,”

    “And it was not meant to be insulting or degrading but simply thought provoking.”

    You have no defense. Your “truths” are exactly that-yours and yours alone. Your sense of decency is not just lacking but basically non-existant! You bring up visions of an unkempt, smelly individual sitting around in his dirty boxers and ratty “Che” t-shirt, chain-smoking at a desk were the computer keyboard is encrusted with heaven-knows-what, trash, piles of paper, multiple ashtrays full and overflowing, plates and boxes of left-over food from today back 2 months ago, in the basement of your parents house were they can close the door. Dude! Get a life! Clean-up your act, take some personal hygene classes and go to your local library and immerse yourself into something you would like to be semi-knowledgable about. Then come back in 2 years (should take about that long) and address us again with your wisdom. You would probably fall out with amazement (or amusement) if, at that time, you re-read some of the swill you are trying to shove down our throats. Maybe do some crossword puzzles so that you could manage some succinctness in your drivel. Just please stop with your inane sense of factuallity. You are about as irritating as Barney the purple dinosaur!

  18. ACTivist says:

    Dan,

    If LBJ and Grace Slick were the “Great Society” then I believe that the SDS, Weather Underground and The Masons were the secret society!

  19. Wolverine says:

    Man, I’ve been trying to use a stiletto here. And all of sudden a Big Bertha shell comes whizzing in from somewhere in southern Virginia. Heavy artillery. Always a nice thing to have in your arsenal. My hat is off to the commander of that artillery unit.

  20. dans says:

    ACT, sure, blame everything on the Masons.

    Jack, thanks for cleaning up BF’s..

  21. Jack,

    Thanks. And I used to think I was wordy.

    Brian

  22. Bobby Fontaine says:

    Bitches wouldn’t really be a four letter word when it is used literally. I mean really guys, you sound a like a bunch of feminists back in the 80’s who can’t stay on point with the topic at hand but must always digress to name calling and correcting anyone who doesn’t follow the social protocols they make as as they wander through life.

    But really Activist, that was a fine piece of writing there. You built a lasting memory of this person you seem to see when you read my poses. I would attack you back for it but it was really a good bit of writing. I commend you for it. You have talent when you get stirred up.

  23. Jack says:

    I love it! After a long diatribe against us, employing multiple “Anglo-Saxonisms,” he says WE resort to name-calling!!

    That’s really rich.

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