Just watch, nothing further really needs to be said.
It is amazing that our President and Press have remained as passive as they have in the face of this and countless other such acts in Iran. The real interesting question is what is the source of the unrest, face it both candidates were hand picked by the Mullahs. Another example:
To intervene or not? Loudoun Insider at TooConservative provide some analysis. Unfortunately I do not agree, air strikes without boots on the ground will only give the Mullahs a scapegoat with some measure of credibility. After the past 7 years, our press has so damaged us we cannot engage in such ventures. Obama’s great ‘I’m sorry tour’ only sealed the deal. The ideal of American exceptionalism is dead.
UPDATE:
Protest organisers held in Iranian raid – report
We are already the scapegoat and have been the official one in Iran since 1979.
True. The idiots blame us for earthquakes. The key issue is one of will the people on the street believe the accusations.
I doubt it.
Christopher Hitchens shows why we will get blamed for anything anyway:
http://slate.com/id/2221020
“Time for air strike”
Yea, and then what?
LI,
The question is not just one of being blamed but whether the Iranian street finds the Mad Mullahs accusation credible. I think you and I are in agreement that we will be blamed for anything and everything negative.
The real question is the responce on the street. What is the giggle factor with the masses in Iran when the finger will be pointed at us? ‘I doubt it’ works for earth quakes. If the bombs start falling will we be seen as liberators or interopers? We screwed the pooch in Iraq in GW-I. We told the Shia to rise up and then watched as Hussein wiped them out. We then had the nerve to be surprised when we finally marched in 12 years to late that we got a less than cheerful response.
We are not seen as a force for good in the world anymore. We can thank our own press for this. They played politics with the war, and now we are stuck. Obama went arund apologising — the dipshit actually thinks that helps.
There are three issues I see with intervention :
Credibility of the uprising. In that part of the world, will the uprising have more cred with the average Joe on the street there with or without U.S involvement and support ? I believe without.
Respect for the concept of national sovereignty. Like it or not, Iran is a sovereign nation. How can we on one hand show concern for our lack of national sovereignty, yet with the other interfere in the sovereignty of Iran ?
Obama’s hands are tied. How can he come out in favor of the protestors in Iran questioning the outcome of their election, while ignoring the million plus people here that want to see his birth certificate ? Reality is that for every protestor we see on the video feeds from Iran, there is one or more here who believe his election to be fraudulent. I believe it is for this reason alone he is not more outspoken on this.
Obama’s legitimacy is an issue. More so here than in Iran. Something stinks all to hell with this president. Simple questions like:
1. where was he born? Grandma said it was in Kenya
2. Where was he for several years
3. is he a Muslim – an issue I placed NO credence until the twit bowed to the Saudi king, but sauntered past queen elizabeth like she was not even in the room
4. Why no transcript?
Take another look at those two videos. If you actually think that some stronger and faster verbal condemnation from Obama would have had any effect on what you have just witnessed on those videos, you have not seen enough of the real world. Nothing short of a threat of war has much effect in situations such as this.
Some pundits are crawling all over a comparison between Obama’s performance here and Reagan’s performance with regard to Poland and other Eastern European countries. I will applaud forever what Reagan did. However, Reagan was not operating in the era of Lenin and vibrant Bolshevism or even in the bloody and merciless era of Joe Stalin. He faced off against a failed and sinking political/economic system in which the supposed ideology — Marxism — had become a hollow joke. Reagan’s adversaries had become little more than tyrannical bullies — pale shadows, really, of genuine revoltionary Marxists — who were still smart enough to know that the end game was coming and that they had better give up and get out before the people reached a stage of violent retribution.
Obama faces in Iran a group of similar bullies with all the same means and tactics for totalitarian control as Reagan faced. However, there is a big difference here: the ideology in the form of religion is not hollow. It is still real. It is fanatical. It is like facing not just a handful of desperate kamikaze pilots but, rather, a much larger mass of people who turn to murder and suicide as battle tactics as if they were quite normal things to do. Such people, seeming to care for something else important to them beyond their own miserable hides, have a tendency not to listen very well. To them the words of their enemies are just words. The only thing that stops them is greater power efficiently and directly applied.
Maybe just economic power can do it without resorting to the military option. But even in that, we have not seen a very effective joint reponse in recent years on many similar issues. Darfur is still there. Myanmar is still there. Somalia is about to fall again. Chavez is taking down the Venezuelan democracy in our own backyard. North Korea spits in the eye of everyone. Death never stops visiting Central Africa, even as we speak. And we cannot get even our own NATO allies to up significantly their troop ontributions in Afghanistan. Do I hear some sensible proposals beyond just yelling longer and louder at the Iranian leadership?
dans, I agree with most of what you said (for once) in #6 except the
“while ignoring the million plus people here that want to see his birth certificate ? Reality is that for every protestor we see on the video feeds from Iran, there is one or more here who believe his election to be fraudulent”
as a reason his hands are tied. Even though, or even if, there are a million people who want to see his birth certificate, that’s the population of a city the size of Philadelphia. Even if 40% of America wanted to see his birth certificate it wouldn’t be the reason.
I think you are overestimating the importance of that conspiracy. If you need to trash the man, who is more circumstantially bound than anything else, I think the “experience” gripe would hold more water.
Clinging to that, and Jacob’s entire #7, makes you sound like you’ve been wandering for the past 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness of crazy conservative blogs without much exposure to any other media.
Kevin,
Frankly the longer the whole ‘where is your birth certificate’ goes on the more I wonder. When I first hear about it lat August I thought it was a crock. Now, considering how much muscle has been expended keeping the records sealed, I wonder.
You on the other hand are busy drooling, and begging to believe in the messiah — but I am the nut hey?
Jaconb, don’t be silly.
“You on the other hand are busy drooling, and begging to believe in the messiah — but I am the nut hey?”
does nothing to explain how I view the current president. Recall that it’s you and your pals here who continuously refer to him as “the messiah” and the fact that I point out ridiculous arguments you make does not make me “drooling” over him.
“I am the nut hey?” implies that you’re saying I’m the nut.
Ok, Jacob.
If you would scroll up a little you will notice you called me insane. Now you are wounded. Poor dear.
when the media experience shivers etc, when his followers chant hope and chant with not a clue as to what that means … wsell you know. We are not the only ones who have made this connection either. You sound wounded, as if someone trad on our sacred cow. or something
I can’t speak for Kevin but I think Obama has done a pretty good job so far and it’s too early to say whether he will be a successful and effective president or not. I suspect that is what most Americans believe as well.
Jacob on the other hand seems to believe that if you don’t think Obama is the antichrist then you must be “busy drooling, and begging to believe in the messiah.” I guess it makes him feel better to think that those he disagrees with are as extreme and out of touch as he is but it is not a very accurate picture of what most people believe.
Unless you are “dans”, and I’m not so sure you’re not, I don’t see how you could misinterpret that I called you insane. Besides, spending 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness of CRAZY CONSERVATIVE BLOGS without much exposure to other media can easily make one insane, no doubt, but that wasn’t what I meant. Who’s wounded, really, my dear friend?
Kevin, if you read (and comprehend) my post, will will find no expression of my thoughts on the matter, only a report of the FACT that there are many that are concerned with this.
If you fail to recognize that there are many, many, people who question Obama’s legitimacy based on the question of his being natural born, this is a good sign that you do need to spend less time in the bars, and more time out among humanity.
Now, now, boys!!!!
Time to go home to Mommy.
Forgive me if I seem not to understand this; but doesn’t Kevin (and Zimzo as well) seem awfully eager to jump in and make comments on this “crazy conservative blog”? I would have expected them to be seen more often in liberal places such Operative Word or anti-BVBL; but I guess those two are smart enough to appreciate where the real action is. Well, beat me with a stick and then pass the beer! Diversity is wonderful, isn’t it? Provided you have a thick skin and a hard skull.
The mullahs are now striking back hard. The rate of detention has seriously increased, and the police are using live ammo against demonstrators. Iran is further isolating itself from the rest of the world, including launching criticism of the Secretary-General of the U.N.
I believe that it is forbidden in Iran for private citizens to possess firearms. Look now for the first assassination or attempted assassination of a radical cleric, a police officer, or a prominent civilian official of the current regime. Also look for the taking of personal vengeance against the irregular militia which appeared to start all the deadly shooting. When you see that happen, you will know that Phase II has begun. Also keep an eye on the regular Iranian military. Many of these men are sure to have relatives out on the streets.
dans, or joe, or whoever you are (how else could you know I spend 24/7 at the bar?), of course you expressed your thoughts. While reporting your FACT that many are concerned with it, you further state that it is your belief that this was why he is not more outspoken about Iran. If I had some difficulty comprehending that, it’s simply that the point is incomprehensible.
I concede that there may be many who discredit BO over the “He won’t show me his birth certificate!!”. I’ve never said any differently. It still doesn’t make for the reason his hands are tied, though you believe it so. The reason is more circumstantial (i.e. pertaining to the circumstances at hand) than it is over some crackpot idea that he somehow KNOWS he has no legitimacy here in the ole USA because a group of people are asking to see his birth cert. As I said, that conspiracy means more to you than it should. It’s almost as if you’re developing ideas of reference.
And Woof, this is one of the “craziest” conservative blogs, hands down. Going to one of those liberal blogs would be boring, I’d rather spend my time with the crazies.
Kevin, I fully agree on those liberal blogs. It gets to be like listening to a broken record. (I hope somebody out there remembers what “records” are!!) Nevertheless, once in awhile someone like The Bulletproof Monk throws a live grenade in there, and the fur does indeed fly. It’s the reason why I keep going back to look every once in awhile. And Loudoun Insider on Operative Word? Cat fight from the word go!
BTW, if Loudoun Insider is peeking in here at NVTH, I’d like to ask him a question. Everytime I post something on his blog, the blog gets knocked off my screen, all except the title of the first thread. Never happens anywhere else in blogland. Is there something wrong with the blog or are my postings so profound that the blog can’t handle the excitement?
Kevin,
Crazy? Maybe like a fox. We allow all points of view here. Try writing something conservative at the dKos, DU, DR or some other nut job left wing blog. That is nuts. All points of view make for sanity. Hell, zimzo – pain in the ass that he is – is actually welcome. Being willing to listen is a sign of stability Kevin, you should know that. Do I back down? No. Do I listen? Yes. Do I think that the left is in the throws of Obama worship. Yes. Will I keep plugging away on this — you can count on it.
Wolve,
It is indeed fun to toss in a pearl of knowledge that defeats their gravity just to watch them come unhinged and floating all over…
They’ll make up facts on the fly, too…if they truly get desperate.
And as always, if they have a good bead on a particular subject, I’m happy to give credit where credit is due.
As for TC, they began to play with the software, and it has stopped doing that on my computer. I use FireFox (on Joe’s recommendation)and IE may handle it differently. I only know that the blog is okay on my junk now.
He’s indefensible. He authorizes payments to his attorneys to attempt to defeat the discovery. If he had no problems in the area, he’d simply turn it over.
Everyone of us has to show ours. It looks bad when he appears as someone who thinks he’s above the common man.
“I concede that there may be many who discredit BO over the “He won’t show me his birth certificate!!”. I’ve never said any differently. It still doesn’t make for the reason his hands are tied, though you believe it so. The reason is more circumstantial (i.e. pertaining to the circumstances at hand) than it is over some crackpot idea that he somehow KNOWS he has no legitimacy here in the ole USA because a group of people are asking to see his birth cert. As I said, that conspiracy means more to you than it should. It’s almost as if you’re developing ideas of reference.”
Wolv, BM,
I had the same trouble at TC for a bit, I use firefox at home and it does not happen. At work I peak in using IE and the issue does crop up.
Jacob, a quick read through this thread and you’ll see the madness of which I speak. . .
Still, yes, it is nice that you don’t delete comments that disagree with yours.
“you and your pals here who continuously refer to him as “the messiah”
It was Louis Farrakhan who originally referred to the Usurper as the “Messiah,” the same Louis Farrakhan that Wright and the Interloper’s church gave their highest award to.
“some crackpot idea that he somehow KNOWS he has no legitimacy here in the ole USA because a group of people are asking to see his birth cert.”
The eligibility issue started several years before the election, actually it began while he was a state senator.
One of the first people requesting documents from him was a reporter from a NY newspaper, the reporter questioned him because he went to a class reunion that was in the Usurper’s class year and not one student had ever heard of him or remembered him, BHO wouldn’t respond.
Hawaii issued Certificates Of Live Birth to children born in foreign countries if a parent meets residence requirements (not necessarily a citizen parent). The certificate has limited use in Hawaii and other jurisdictions and agencies, it can’t be used for homestead and many other legal purposes, it is a limited use document. His sister who was born in Indonesia also has the same Hawaiian birth certificate.
Actually, the birth certificate makes no difference, he, himself confirmed that he was not eligible when he wrote that his father was not a citizen. Kenya was under British Rule when he was born, his father was a British Subject, under British law, BHO was himself a British subject through his father.
If he was born in Kenya as his grandmother stated, he mother was too young to confer citizenship to him, but he would have still been a dual citizen.
Records in Indonesia show that he was adopted by his step father and his religion Muslim, he then used his adopted name, “Barry Soetoro.”
He has also used the name Barry Dunham, Barry Obama and a few others, why?
There have been private investigators that have also uncovered numerous social security numbers for him
So much information has surfaced, but he is refusing any information or documents to prove or disprove the information.
The people who voted for him, voted for someone that has no past beyond 20 years ago, nothing. They put someone who won’t even discuss who he is or where he is from in the white house with our most sensitive secrets, documents and power to make us or break us. Way to go people, you most likely checked out your dog sitter more thoroughly.
dans is dans, and joe is joe, right joe ?
Besides, joe is much more subtle than I…
I rest my case.
At this moment as I sit in Louisville airport at 6:20 am I can assure you that joe is joe, because no one else would take the job.
RE: dans I have no empirical evidence at this juncture so dans could be Julie Andrews as far as I know.
Joe
Can you prove that you’re in Louisville?
Maybe you took a little side trip to So. America.
I’d love a side trip to So. America, depending on where exactly, however this time it was just Kentucky which is practically like being in the US
And we all know you can’t ghostwrite while in the fair state of Kentucky. Why, the distilleries alone prohibit it. You should visit the Bourbon Trail.
Something to watch in reference to the second paragraph of my #18 post on this thread:
From the New York Times: “Some people have begun to identify and embarrass plainclothes agents by circulating photographs of those who infiltrated protests and beat demonstrators.”
Hmmm. People died in this thing. If you are an Iranian plainclothes agent who was involved in the beating of demonstrators, it might be wise to change your residential address and vary the routes you take home and to the office. In fact, it might be even wiser to take a sudden vacation to Isfahan or some other faraway location where they don’t readily know who you are.