Jack: “So Lincoln was a liar?”

No, he was a politician. He actually wanted to accomplish his goals instead of sitting around and ranting like you do. I have already explained hy the Emancipation proclamation did not apply everywhere. It’s amazing how naive you are.

You said that states have a right to secede, which means you would have supported letting slavery flourish unmolested. Lincoln did not argue that states have no right to secede. In his first Inaugural Address, he argued that states do not have the right to secede unilaterally, likening the Constitution to a contract where one party does not have the right to abrogate the contract without the permission of the other party. In Texas v White the Supreme Court ruled that states do not have the right to secede.

jack,

Sec. 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

(2) Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

You are correct that slavery was sustained. I realize that this is semantics, but the fact remains that slavery can’t flourish lacking importation. That, coupled with the fact the something like 10% of southern landowners were slave holders.

btw, if you’re interested :

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/snhome.html

Wolverine if members of our armed forces find it so difficult to stay within the law and are so worried about an investigation into whether they did, then that just makes it all the more imperative that the Justice department pursue this investigation. I hope that is not the case but your protests just make me wonder what has been going on for the last eight years.

Zimzo: What was going on for the past eight years is that you and a lot of people in this country are still alive to enjoy that strong Constitution of ours. And I will tell you from my own experience that what Holder will find in all this is a mere puff of smoke and much of that the product of his own ideologically warped mind. In the meantime, he will have burned the edges off a great deal of true patriotism and desire to take personal risks to save the lives of others. That will be your loss, Zimzo. I don’t know what it takes to get it through your head that you may be playing with your own life and walking into the ultimate negative: sauve qui peut.

You want a real dose of reality? Your man Clinton also tried to play games with the Clandestine Service. Many of the most experienced people in that service hung up their spikes in response to Clinton. Given the level of those who could elect to quit, you lost much of the starting defense and offense on a good football team and had to start playing out a tough season with your rookies and reserves. What you got was Kovar Towers, USS Cole, the embassies in Nairobi and Dar, and the real capper, 9/11, among others Over time, the team was built back again into a good performer. You want to make the same stupid mistake all over again, be my guest.

Alternative viewpoint, is it possible that Obama is using this CIA investigation to stoke the fading flames of the blame the Bush administration fire ?

Lately, Obama has experienced a drastic drop in public opinion polls, and his hallmark health care reform is on life support. Could it be that by reopening this, he hopes to create a distraction from his troubles of late, and try to milk the blame Bush cow one more time ?

Yup, they do, they die as well..

Dans, I have seen some commentary addressing what you suggest. With many troops still in Iraq, with the upping of the ante in Afghanistan, with the wavering on certain parts of the health reform plan such as the public option, and, in truth, with the stealthy retention of many of GWB’s policies, some believe that Obama has found it necessary to start tossing “bones” to the increasingly restive Far Left which brought him to the party in the first place. If he, however, thinks that tossing them the CIA “bone” is a good idea in the middle of a shadow war against terrorism, he is verging on being nuts. He badly needs a history lesson.

jack, how do you define flourish ?

It has been estimated that the slave population of the south grew by 20% every decade. Is this flourishing ?

“Alternative viewpoint, is it possible that Obama is using this CIA investigation to stoke the fading flames of the blame the Bush administration fire ?”

It’s not really an alternative viewpoint, at least to me. There’ll be an immigration “reform” plan (cough, cough “amnesty”) pushed forwards very soon, now, or some similar piece of legislation that p*sses Conservatives off. Cap and Trade is being ignored at the moment, for example – he’ll hope to divide the opposition’s energy, by having a multitude of issues open simultaneously.

His protests aside, there’s absolutely no way that Holder is doing this without the express permission of Obama, or perhaps the guy I suspect wields power much in the same way Cheney was always accused of, Rahm Emanuel.

The politics of distraction, evasion, half-truths and lies – Hope and Change, indeed.