More later on what “city folk” “like”.

ACT, first installment: before I go into my opinions on what I as a “city folk” (not by my opinion, because I’ve lived IN a city, and where I grew up and where I live now by no means compare, although neither is “the country”) like, let’s take a bit part of my equation that you left off of this post (although did touch on tangentially, with the “quality of life” far from work), and a much bigger change that you don’t address.

The part of my equation that does address some of what you raise is my comment on how do we maintain two very different kinds of county on one county tax base? One part very much wants to stay low density, and some there (even if they moved in after I did, which is long after you did) fight any infrastructure tooth and nail because they think it will endanger what THEY bought (or thought they did along with their house and their land).

IF the low desnity area is going to remain low density, AND have a lot of tax perks because we like to think this is still a farm economy, how do we pay for service for ALL of us? The area that has been chosen for growth in order to protect the other area can’t just keep paying more and more in tax on a limited amount of property–it may ALL be in the tax base, but it’s only one third of the land we have to tax–we need commercial to support EVERYONE, including those folks whose land is taxed at a fraction of what yours and mine is. THREE BILLION in assessed value, untaxed. I have the spreadsheet. If it was all in crops, we’d all eat everything completely local, instead of paying $5 for a pint basket of baby squash at a farmer’s market, that actually comes from West Virginia.

We have already been chosen to grow over here, and I’ve mentioned before that some people who were born here view your neighborhood as what was the beginning of the end, because it was the first subdivision.

How are we going to pay for the whole county, if we all just stop and sit? We can’t.

And here comes a big thing you left out: the working world has changed drastically since you did what everybody used to do and bought near your job (in a subdivision that used to be a farm).

My husband and I both had dads who bought houses, his about 2 miles from Key Bridge, mine about two miles from Chain Bridge, they got up early and put on a white shirt and a suit and drove across the bridge to work, and came home to sit down to dinner. My dad paid an astronomical amount in the 50s–$20K!–for a four bedroom house because he had five living children. My brother was the only person in the house who didn’t share a room because he was the only boy child. neither my husband nor I could begin to afford the pretty modest (but luxurious in that they were brick, with plaster walls and hardwood floors, and had woods and creeks surrounding them even on quarter acre lots) homes we grew up in.

My husband has also and will never have the luxury that it sounds like you had, and our dads had, in getting a job and staying there until retirement.

About the only people who do that in volume any more are government workers.

My husband is a techie. He’s had jobs where he can work in the family room in his civvies, and jobs where he was locked into a secure vault for his shift. And those jobs might be two years long, or two months. And you don’t move a family every time the job shifts.

I would have loved to live in a marble pavilion with silk sheers in the archways, where no one but me and whoever I wanted was there in a place that was always exactly the way I wanted it.

But having learned as a kid that you can’t always have whatever you want, our yard where the kids had a swingset has been heaven. We are lucky to have nice neighbors, and we do things together sometimes, and we leave each other alone most times. Would I love to have no one around but us, and not look at anything but our stuff, and have no one on the roads? Sure. I’d like to be about 19 again too, but it ain’t happening.

A guy came down from Lovettsville to our polling place about 8 years ago with one of those fake PEC petitions where they collect email addresses, and told me that when he moved to Lovettsville 20 years ago, HIS COMMUTE TO DC took less than an hour, but now that people like us were here (“you people”), his commute was a mess. No shit, Sherlock.

But he has the right to live there, and feel that way, and flip us off, and so on. We have the right to live here too. And if he wants to keep paying less in taxes because he feeds a couple steer for butchering each year to get a deferral, then we need to take the area that was chosen for growth in order to protect people like him from feeling any worse, and make it grow in a way that will lower residential for all of us.

And that ain’t happening with empty commercial scattered around in little pieces that a Fortune 500 can’t move into, even if people that don’t know any better (and some who do) quote the square footage in the aggregate. Nor will it happen with no roads, minimal buses, and not much else (often suppressed, as with some of the metro opponents now) by people who just want what THEY want–no road improvements, everybody get the hell off of THEIR ROAD.

How do we support what we already have–we can’t in the current model. The developed areas need tools if the lesser-developed areas want to be left alone. Can’t have it both ways, which is how we’ve had it for a long long time, and THAT is what we can’t afford anymore.

Barbara, you won’t stop those selfish people from wanting things to stop building now that they have moved into the area. That doesn’t mean they’ll get there way (I wasn’t like that but I did want plans and moderation and that is what I didn’t get). This is what I’m talking about. They moved from closer in or out of state and had no consideration of being “close” to their jobs. And that will be the next set of people who start losing their quality of life as they get passed by with others moving farther out, as I explained. Some things you have to live with but others aren’t necessary. Taxes are part of the quality of life. Toll Brothers and others like them didn’t give Loudoun quality of life. They built for profit, gave a little infrastructure and moved on while leaving a mess behind. They can’t see us from where they live. Why should I pay or make it easier for a select few to live 30 miles away and have a commute of 45 minutes, and drop their time to 35 minutes while others move 40 miles away and have a 45 minute commute. I kmow people that drive thru Loudoun that commute from WVA and PA EVERY DAY. That is there issue. Don’t complain about the commute–either find a house close to work or work closer to where you live. Their dilemma is not for me to bear.

Barbara, I agree with most of what you say above. I am not here to stop people from living where they want to. I also believe that deferment on taxes for “bogus” situations hurt us all. That is what I DIDN’T like about paying property owners not to build. That’s crap. What I am saying is that having an adequate infrastructure and roadways should be all that is necessary. We have corridors set up for business yet we aren’t getting the business or even the right type.. We have an outer beltway to deal with yet we have Rt 15, a major and necessary thoroughfare, turned into a save/cultural/pure/historic or whatever it is called, area that won’t be widened. Why the hell not? It needs to be and should be. When I moved into the county, I did check the 5 and 10 year plans and, with what little information that was available (everything back then was always “up in the air” or maybes), I knew what was coming and could live with it. It wasn’t until the BOS became “greedy” and did things in the “we needed it yesterday” and hap-hazard at best, that I saw we weren’t going to have any real set plans for some time to come.

The land I own in the country has no plans in the near vicinity for some time to come. The land is not feasible in use for hyways or subdivisions and I already have frontage easements that will take care of the “public” need, which means that my children will be able to enjoy its serenity for their lifetimes. I even own half of the paved road that is over a quarter mile of my frontage. I am now finished here as I retired. I have no need to leave my little Sterling community because everything of necessity is close at hand. My wife has 2 years (or when she is totally fed up and her eyes have turned brown within the last 3 months) before she can join my ranks. THEN we can live behind that quality we lost OUT OF NECESSITY and return to total quality at our new location. That is how it works. You need to accept the suffering from self inflicted wounds to get along. I don’t want to suffer others–that’s their burden. I also am tired of carrying the “sheep farmers”, vineyard growers, pet cattle ranchers that are gigging the system at my expense. Then there is the need of business. Like I said (and I have been with companies who have the need to relocate or spread out), businesses will go where they please. Enticing them only means that SOMETHING is going to suffer. Contract personnel is the “new” work ethic and if that is what you want, rather than trying to hire on full time, again, a self inflicted wound. We (you, me and others) can’t accommodate everyone nor should we try. And Metro won’t accommodate what you believe it will. I am unwilling to think “it will be okay” or have the “wait and see” attitude. Bring the business with the raodways and transportation we have in place. If the NEED then arises that we need more, that is when you look at alternatives like Metro. Why do you insist on putting the cart before the horse? The logic IS NOT THERE!

Not to be a smartass but am I understanding you right? What your saying is that developers refuse to build buildings to attract the type of companies necessary to alleviate the citizen tax burden? Really? I remember when Herndon kept building offices after the worm had turned. I saw it happen twice. Money was available but companies were tightening their belts. The developers were the ones giving incentives for occupancy–one floor at a time. Why? Bad timing and their bank notes were coming due. I saw developers lose their ass and fold. I saw new buildings unoccupied for 3 and 4 years. In Herndon, at one stage, 25% of office building availability stood vacant for long periods of time. Same in Loudoun. You can build a shell and complete guts when you have leasees. Most developers will not build without 75% occupancy long term leases. The risk is on the developer-not the county. The county still gets its tax on that building regardless. Now how is office availability, and it must meet a specific client need for occupancy, germane to the need of Metro? If we only need buildings being built then lets get to it. We are zoned. County can collect taxes. The developers are taking all the risks. Uh oh. Now we get to the core of the issue. We do everything in this county to accommodate the developers, right? And we, as a county, will risk untold expenses so that the developers won’t have to. That is also assbackwards or the cart before the horse. We taxpayers don’t do “risk”. That belongs to those that want to invest and are looking for a return on their money. Metro will not give Loudouners a return on the money but I’m sure the developers will be pleased. No thanks.

2.9 miles of Metro and two stops will solve it all! For only hundreds of millions of dollars! What a deal!

Can’t buy that, Barbara. Political posturing has been here since these hayseeds first got the notion that this county needed to be the best in the world at all costs……excuse me; at all taxpayer costs.. The change that is/was needed was addressed, solved and acted upon for the last 25 years. Now we need even more change to reach that elusive “business come to Loudoun” goal? Sounds like an Obama nightmare scenario to me. I’m tired of the “I promise that if we do this then this will happen” rhetoric I always hear. This is nothing more than another drug put upon the people and you know what Nancy says: “Just say NO to drugs!”. I absolutely can’t understand an intelligent woman like yourself buying in to Metro, Barbara. It is not making sense to me and, no, I don’t think you are in someone’s pocket.

I don’t think we needed to be “the best at all costs” (even with the school budget–we spend a lot of money to have a lot of stuff, and the structure is as with most public systems, the government fad OTM and primarily resume driven).

I think we have a lot of people that want what they want at all costs, and in the process of growing, we’ve not done much to address change. We don’t adapt policy, we simply add it.

And we do things one way here and another way there, and a lot of very stupid things too in the process.

The most horrendous non-adaption we’ve committed is thinking we CAN be up to the minute and never ever change at one and the same time. We seem to want the kind of taxes that come with having up to the minute companies pay them for us, but somehow function on a dirt road state of mind.

Like it or no, we’re in the developed/developing area, and we need to bring our infrastructure up to date with what’s already here and still coming.

I don’t buy into the “DC will be a ghost town in five years” endtimes prophecy.

What if it isn’t? We’ll be five years further behind the curve than we already are (and on some of our roads, that already 20 years behind).

Brian, the issue is not ‘is bringing light rail to Loudoun a good idea’ but ‘is the CURRENT DEAL bringing rail to Loudoun’ a good idea. It is not. It is a financial loser on many levels

Barb, I wouldn’t be too sure about all those people coming. It looks to me like we will have no choice but to shrink that Federal feeding trough substantially if we ever want to climb out from under the suffocating national debt. Since the Federal trough and associated private contracts compromise about 40% of the local economy, the dream about 2.8 miles of rail turning Loudoun into the economic engine of NoVa is going to require one hell of a lot of major businesses not connected to the trough. A real gamble for a lot of future Metro bills, IMO. This whole thing seems to be taking on an Elmer Gantry flavor: Put the money in my collection plate, and I will guarantee that you go to Heaven!

What amazes me is that so many who eye Metro as their commuting saviour cannot just drive or go kiss-and-ride or catch a bus to the proposed Route 28 station to board their transport. For just a couple of miles, they want to go into eternal debt to the MWAA?!!!

Barbara, A bad deal is a bad deal. Even if there are those who are against rail not matter what, supporting the current plan it makes NO fiscal sense. While Loudoun is 320K people, we are not ready for rail, nor will rail alleviate congestion on VA7, VA28 or US50 — thus saith WMATA!.

So why do it? It will not bring business because the business taxes will go through the roof to pay for it. It will more than likely depress the price of home, not raise them, because building 5000+ high density units is just not attractive, especially when coupled with a tax district or a county wide property tax hike. York’s track record on getting a good deal sucks.

We need a better plan and a better deal. A better plan might actually do something for congestion, a better deal will cost less. Yes Barbara, we ARE paying too much for too little.

The opposition makes alot of counter arguments all over the place…. But they avoid the developer-welfare component of the deal….they avoid the fiscally irresponsible deal component, and the uncontrolled madhouse that is MWAA and WMATA component of the deal.
All the while, they toss out the “look over there” arguments to sideline any REAL discussion of this travesty.

In other news, wha–a-a—at?

http://www.loudountimes.com/index.php/news/article/clarke_axes_aide_over_dulles_rail/

Yes, part time at will employee of the supervisor, and so on, perfectly legit, but announce it on facebook? Then take it down?

And now it’s a “news” story.

ay yi yi.

Don’t get me started on Facebook. Worst thing to come down the pike and it replaces contentuous issues discussed on blogs. Seems like everyone has a facebook page for followers but me. My face won’t even stand the mirror which is why I have this blog.

Aides come and go at the whim of the supported individual. The only reason Biden is still on the Obama ticket is because of his being an anal “yes” man which is to be expected. Everyone has followers on facebook and it seems to be the place for “up to the minute” news. I believe a more credible venue (like here) would be more appropriate. Since I don’t have an account, I would suggest others reviewing the BOS facebook pages for more news on this issue. We may find out what their real intentions are. Hopefully it will be about fiscal responsibility (except York of course).

It is her business to hire and fire at-will employees.

Posting it on fb, then taking it down, and now having it published makes for one more carnival attraction in the ongoing farce.

I can think of a couple bloggers who may be very pleased about it, for personal reasons, but they seem to be occupied at the moment with threatening Ken Reid, after wooing him all weekend with pinup photos with the pig.

ACT, I don’t think this has much to do with FB. I think it has to do with Clarke’s temper tantrum and management style. What happened to the Team of Rivals? Why wouldn’t a leader want to hear closely what is on all sides of the argument. Why did she feel so threatened by an opposing viewpoint? If she is so quick to find disgust in the views of an employee how open is she to constituents that don’t see things the way she does? Is she going to fire them too?

Did any churches get hit this weekend? Maybe Phil disagreed with that tactic?

Jacob, I think this is an infrastructure investment worthy of more serious discussion than it’s received.

I think we can honor our commitment to participate without the world coming to an end (with the possible exception of that world in which when a few people have a political temper tantrum, we cobble together something that costs more in the long run to placate them, because in spite of the massive change we’ve undergone as a county–thanks to ALL of us who moved here–we have yet to adress some of the basic facts of that change).

I think that we need to have a serious discussion of how we specifically would financially participate, and I think we are prevented from doing so by the antics of the small crowd of perennial bomb-throwers who have done everything in their power to muddy the waters.

And perennial bomb-thrower is not ad hominem, if it is true. And it is.

There is no time for “serious discussions” – there is a vote in 8 days. We don’t even know if the special tax districts (STD) are legal and that is the only plan on the table besides pilfering the already existing strained county budget. These questions can’t be answered and the problems solved in 8 days. It can’t happen.

What we are looking at is a vote on a funding plan that has not been vetted. County staff can’t/won’t answer specific questions on STDs. We are walking into a situation where the ultimately the ONLY option will be to fund this project on the backs of the homeowners from general funds.

Some would call the lack of time for “serious discussion” – mission accomplished.

Hopefully there will be enough adults in the room as this financing is worked out. To include considered the general fund, tax districts and other forms of financing. I imagine we’ll be discussing options well past the vote on the 3rd.

What we are looking at is a vote on an opportunity to fix a big part of our transportation issues, and to make a significant investment in economic development.

The funding will work out. I don’t see it as being a problem without a solution.

The optpigs have known for months this deadline was coming. That is why we have seen a very well orchestrated delay campaign. In retrospect the goal post moving was the only strategy they had. Especially with the support Metro has garnered amongst the community.

I am sorry your head is numb ACT. The goal post move Barbara referred to is the latest tactic by the optpig to bring up Rt 28 as being the terminus or the commuter parking lot. I am really not sure what their plan is and they don’t either, but it does keep the conversation away from the real work which is how are we going to fund this.

“Parking garage and bus dropoffs at the Rt. 28 station provide convenient access from Loudoun” (from their website) This is their latest alternative to building Loudoun Metro.

As soon as this is deemed ridiculous then they will move onto something else. Good news is we only have a week left of it. By now, I’d think they are running out of other options.

Think about it. Optpig has lost the battle of public opinion. So they have opted for a blocking tactic. So here’s the plan:

1. Delay, delay, delay
2. Make stuff up to confuse the funding issue.
3. Pepper wavering Supervisors with aggressive gorilla tactics
4. Belittle wavering Supervisors by attacking their credibilty if they don’t vote no.
5. Threaten aggressive election opposition if wavering Supervisors do not vote no.
6. Move the goal posts when momentum dies.

Not a plan with a lot of integrity but that’s what they are running with and what the adults are having to deal with.

Oh, and if someone disagrees fire them publicly. But do it nicely by saying what a blessing they are, just not right now.

BlackEye, thanks for your concern. I don’t frequent biased sites for either side because I don’t care their “talking” points. I am a concerned citizen that has asked for nothing more than factual data in order to form an understanding, and then a determination as to the affect of my QOL. That is all I’ve requested since the very beginning and have seen nothing but distraction, off topic talking points, speculation and whose to blame. I work on facts and figures. They dictate that this is a bad endeavor to move forward on. THAT is what I base my stance on. Anything else is just spam.

As you well know, BlackEye, especially with the association on McGumby, aides come and go. If an aide disagrees with the boss, that will stifle future understanding of the mission. Clarke’s FB page and aide dismissal has no bearing on the necessity of Metro or its funding. The aide can always be heard as a citizen promoting his viewpoint and we all get to do that. Let’s not go on a Clarke witch-hunt again. We all know how you feel about the members of this board.

ACT, the newest goal post is the same one Jacob edited his post to add: NOT stopping at 28, but going there and then making a N/S turn.

Great idea, and probably necessary in future, and maybe a cheaper way to get another river crossing if it’s above ground.

AND guess what? That’s NOT what’s on the table.

So why not take that new talking point and get involved in the future of the system, and start advocating for it? With a river crossing aboveground to carry both trains and vehicles.

turbo, you are repeating another talking point: that those in support are a tiny (paid) minority. Sorry, no. Don’t read me. Problem solved.

ACT, I agree that it’s her business to hire and fire as is best for her office.

I also know that after the good work she did in Brambleton to get rid of Burton, she gained a lot of indys and crossovers who were willing to take a chance on someone willing to do outreach and be responsive to their community.

If she blows them off for the percentage of rural constituency that will continue to get proportionately smaller as time goes by (suburbs zoned for growth, rural zoned for…tax breaks), then someone else will have the same opportunity she did: to go there and say I will represent you, I care what you think, and am willing to work for you.

They know what that entails in their lexicon, because they define what they think. Not a plastic pig in Hamilton.

Didn’t miss it Wolve–those accoutrments are not planned for Loudoun, and would need to expand if it was to receive the blessing of “just take a bus/drive and park/it will be free AND we’ll get $600M”.

talk to the pig’s right hand man–he’s a big robocaller.

Wait just a cotton picking minute!! Robocalls? Tax pigs? Emails? Surveys? I am getting none of these, pro or con. What am I here? Chopped liver?!!!!

Wolve, “if needed”–it will be needed, if some plan for it to handle more commuters than it was designed for, which will cost more because of the redesign, and so on and on.

And to repeat, that “option” isn’t what’s on the table.

Wolverine, if you were the sole buyer, who had commissioned a custom item, I’d say yes.

I understand your opinion and respect your right to it, but this has been a multistep process over years’ time, and at eleven hours and 59 minutes after years of corporate board support (yes, even including Eugene) what’s on the table is what’s been put there by US too, in the form of the ongoing corporate board (yes, including Eugene).

I’m looking forward to their worksession, and hope it is productive.

Yes, indeed, Barb, Metro to Dulles has been a very long-term item. It has been a standing joke in our household for many years that, whenever it was re-election time again for Rep. Wolf, we would surely hear how hard he has been working to get Metro out to Dulles. And our standard response was always: Well how long does it take to get one lousy rail line out to the biggest airport in the region? And how much do you want to bet that we will see the same thing in the campaign literature next time around?

That went on for many years. We have always supported a rail line to service the airport. But this little 2.8 mile thing to Ashburn and the debate about who will pay and how it will be paid for was never really part of the pubic consciousness until just recently in my opinion. Maybe some talked about in official meetings and behind closed doors at various levels, but I’ll wager that there are a lot of people who didn’t know that and now feel like something has been sprung on them. That’s the way we see it. And we also see that 2.8 miles as a potential pig in a poke of large proportions. Being up in the geezer class I may not be around to see the aftereffects, but I do have a strong feeling that the younger chickens like yourself and Brian are going to be paying through the nose for a long time.

No, Yank. The one hair is still laying neatly in place. Funny but I just had a lengthy discussion with the oldest daughter the other day about getting “involved” and that I couldn’t do it all for her. She got mad at the end and didn’t want to think about it (which was her mother’s trait) and I explained that that attitude comes with the program but you got to work thru it to get results–don’t just give up. Then last night I had a similar discussion with my military neighbor. Before we parted for the evening, the same sentiment was evoked by us both–the attitudes of the people in this country towards others really suck. “Care free for me” is the mantra and the glue that binds is dissolving fast. I don’t worry for me as much for the kids and grandbabies. With this rabid bunch in todays times, they are sheep for the slaughter and don’t stand a chance. As is pertinent here, per the Ed principle, what lesson should have happened to the shooter in this incident as a child so that he would have known better than to kill someone out of anger, much less a police officer?. I don’t think that pushing the food plate off the high chair applies here.

The expansion of the Route 28 garage (if necessary) occurred to me as well; if that simple and obvious option “isn’t on the table”, it can only be because there’s more in-play than simply getting commuters from Loudoun to wherever.

No, what’s obvious here is that those who live or own land near the stations have their vested interests (easy Metro access and increased property values – hey, if there was to be a Metro station down the street, I’d want the rest of the county to pay for it too! Of course, it would only be so I could sell my house for more $$$ …)

And Metro has a vested interest in gaining an additional revenue stream to help prop up its operations and future capital improvements.

Now, which of those two things are of benefit to the rest of Loudoun County? People parrot how jobs will come here – sure, look at the Branch Avenue Metro stop – that must’ve brought tens of jobs to PG County …

And, speaking of “piggy-backing” – isn’t running a commuter bus to West Falls Church piggy-backing today? Or commuting to the Wiehle avenue transit center?

(And, by the way, why isn’t a toll on the Dulles access road one of the funding options? Every other place has tolls to the airport .. )

And why would anyone notice that Ashburn was zoned for subway access years ago, when Metro to Dulles was 20 years away (at the time, it seemed a lot more?) It’d be kind of like zoning Leesburg airport for moon shuttle landing rights today …

“Who cares?”
No one except Barbara.

“What does that have to do with the facts of the matter?”
Nothing, zippy, zilch.

” Do not try to feed me a red herring.”

It is the only way to keep from talking about what a stinker this is from a financial standpoint.
Barbara, has Red Herrings, Blue Herrings, and Pickled Herring.

Actually Greg, I prefer herring in sour cream with onion.

But that might not fit the handful of Ritalin and bottle of booze model.

BlackOut, who knows on the predictions?It will be interesting to see what Ken Reid does: he was stroked all weekend on fb by the shock troops and the pig, threatened all day yesterday, and is now the wisest most politically astute best guy on earth because he apparently spent part of the LCRC meeting saluting one guy under both his names, one of which is Tax Pig.

Some dispute on fb, entertaining as usual: a couple of the shock troops were gushing over Ken and how great he was at the meeting, someone who supports Metro chimed in (don’t know him, but the more I read of him I like him) and said “for anyone who wasn’t there, the Chair opened the meeting with a request not to allow differences over rail divide the party, and so the pro side heeded his wishes, and some of the optouters did not”, and got immediately smacked for his temerity, most entertainingly by the far western self-christened lady, who in several sequential heavily punctuated serial posts went from “no one is dividing the party!” to “I’m not going to stand for Republicans acting like Democrats”.

At least she isn’t parroting the pig and calling four supes the Gang of Four anymore.

BTW, you left someone off of your list of state Rs with a position on Metro: The AG, but we’re not supposed to talk about that.

Tell you what, Barb. Come the scheduled opening in 2016, I’ll meet you at the Route 28 Metro Station. I’ll bring the herring in cream sauce. We”ll have to gobble it down in the parking lot though. I understand you can get arrested for doing that on a train.