This just in from Stevens Miller on TC:

“The names of America’s honored dead of Loudoun should not have to share the courthouse lawn with any of this.”

Wolv, Act, Jacob, veterans, comments?

Wolverine,

If Ramadan is supposed to be a religious duty as stated in the Qur’an on pages 79 to approx. page 84…why is it under sharia law as a legal/judical subject?

Reliance of the Traveller, Islamic sacred law, page 277 to 296. Fasting Ramadan

A time of peace and goodwill shared by almost all religions represented in this area turns into a time of dispute, anger, and even hatred. Yes, Loudoun will probaby be embarrassed once again. Intolerance and pettiness on display will do that for you. The whole house is burning. We are engaged in a critical debate over the future of the nation. And some still want to pick a fight in the back yard.

Marjorie, my dear, frankly I don’t give a damn. I lived among Muslims who valued peace. When sunset came during Ramadan, I, a Christian, shared their daily meal with them, eating out of a common bowl, being made privilege to the events of their own lives and the stories of their venerated ancestors, being asked about life in America, and hearing praise of the late John F. Kennedy for his support of civil rights. That is an experience I have never forgotten and never will, even though I spent much of my later life in mortal combat against jihadists and state sponsors of terrorism carrying the same religious banner. I found that, if you did not try to discern between friend and foe, you could go absolutely paranoid in my former business. The “friends” were often the most critical element in our success against evil. I do not think that this has changed. Our contemporary success against terrorist plots does not always come from direct penetration by our security agents. It comes because we also have “friends” who care.

Ms. Munsey keeps using the “Dog in the Manger” fable as a parable. Here’s the cheat sheet:

Manger: The court house lawn
Ox and Cows: The various citizens who wish to “eat” at the public trough by expressing their religious and political views
Dog: The Board of Supervisors

The B.O.S., upset because some of the citizens were using the public forum to say things they didn’t like, decided to shut the forum completely and eliminate all speech except their own.

The Board can (and some Sups do) send out Merry Christmas wishes complete with religious references to all their consistuents (using our tax dollars.) Their constituents used to have a very minimal access to public facilities to share their varied traditions too. Yesterday, because of spite, the Board suspended the freedom to share diverse religious traditions.

The war on christmas spirit continues because those in power have decided that it is hate speech when others make fun of popular traditions or to weave political protest into religious icons. They incite their supporters to vandalize anything that is not to their liking. Thus the free expression venue is shut down as traditionalists refuse to share the manager.

Eh, Gaius, just set aside a small area for such displays whenever appropriate. We do it all the time in the schools. It promotes understanding. All you need is a poster or two. No skin off my nose. It makes people feel good, and “good” is always a positive. It’s not an approbation. Just a gesture of good will from all the rest of us.

I think, however, that you are forgetting the powerful lure of American culture around here. For instance, the neighborhood where I live and have patrolled for a long time is about 35-40% Hispanic immigrant/Hispanic citizen. Cinco de Mayo comes and goes, and you would scarcely know it from street activity. But, come Halloween or Christmas a la America and even the 4th of July, there is a big difference, especially among the kids. And, eventually, those kids will be “it.”

Wiccans? Well, I might make some jokes about Shakespeare’s Macbeth or remind people of the Bibical Witch of Endor. The Druids? Hmm, the mistletoe just might cause a problem with sexual harassment complaints. But, in the end, it is all educational for the rest of us. Know they neighbor and where he is coming from is imperative in a multi-cultured society, in my opinion. If a brief and appropriately timed temporary display makes him feel good, he’ll probaby be more open to friendship — and collaboration when unity is essential. Yes, it can be overdone. But we should be adult enough to handle it on both sides of the aisle. Now, it seems to me in the current dustup that there are some who want to drive the Christians from the public square. And that has gotten us what? Anger.

Does Stephens include in his complaint that commemorative statue of the Confederate soldier with the rifle in his hands? Seems to me he once intimated that the rifle scared him. So now he thinks that the memory of our fallen heroes is insulted by a brief appearance of the Christian “Prince of Peace”? Remember “Flander’s Fields” and all those crosses row on row?

@ jack

The bylaws state that an HOA is private. That is why it is private. It must follow rules set by the county or jurisdiction. It is not some kind of state within a state. It has no power to imprison or seize property. The public gov’t has that power.

Here’s a story of a man who tried to do the right thing. In 1382, after more than 100 years of combat, the Flemish lost their freedom to the French. From that year until 1831, Flanders was continually the possession of someone else — the Burgundians, the French, the Austrian Hapsburgs of the Holy Roman Empire, the Spanish monarchy, Revolutionary France, Napoleon Bonaparte, the Protestant King of the Netherlands. Along the way, the Flemish people became impoverished and scorned as naught but clueless and illiterate peasants. They even lost their written language, a dialect of Netherlandic. Those Flemish of the upper class in Antwerp and other major towns spoke French and looked down upon and discriminated against those whose daily intercourse was in spoken Flemish.

Then came a Flemish sergeant in the Belgian Army who was from the upper class and had secured a job as tutor to the children of the royal family. This sergeant, Hendrick Conscience, began to research in all the great medieval libraries, looking for remnants of written Flemish. He took what he found and literally re-created that language. He then wrote a book about the glorious past of Flanders, when the Flemish, mostly mere working men, were able to defeat the great knightly armies of France. And he wrote that historical novel in the Flemish language he had re-created. His use of the Flemish language caused his upper class, French-speaking father to throw Hendrick out of the home for having embarrassed the family by writing in a “gutter” language.

But Hendrick plodded on, writing even more works in Flemish. Those books filtered down to the villages and towns of Flanders. Those few who could read, read those books to those who could not. Soon the Flemish peasants began to rediscover the glories of their cultural past and wanted to be able to read themselves. It is said that Hendrick Conscience taught the Flemish people to read.

But the Flemish were still considered to be lowly peasants and their re-created language of little consequence. Until, one day, a very important man stood up before the Belgian nation and surprised everyone by giving a speech entirely in Flemish. That man was the King of the Belgians. And the pride of the Flemish people was reborn out of the ash heap of history.

And Hendrick Conscience? He became the curator of government museums. When he died, there was a state funeral through the streets of Brussels. People said of him that he was on a par with the great authors of the time such as Sir Walter Scott. His books went all over the world in translation. We found his greatest masterpiece in a college library in Virginia. It was one Hell of a read. It certainly bolstered Mrs. W’s pride in her Flemish heritage.

Belgium still has a troublesome political rivalry between the Flemish and the French speakers in the rest of Belgium, but it is a rivalry in which both sides now have equal cultural pride. And that came about because of the persistence of one skilled writer and a generous gesture of good will by his king.

Marjorie, I sincerely believe that, if you had been living in 1917, you would have been among those advocating the rounding up and imprisonment of every German-American immigrant in the country, simply because they came from Germany. That would have included many of our own relatives. Never mind that some of those same relatives fought for us in France and came home, if they did come home, with medals on their chests and wounds in their bodies.

Sorry, Marjorie, but you seem to be a paper warrior who has never been in real combat and thinks every contest involves a seamless army on both sides. You read and condemn from a distance on a universal scale and cry out that everyone but you is being “fooled” by the enemy. Caution and verification is always part of the process. But you seem to want to throw away one of our greatest tools: the cooperation of those on the “other side” who are not in agreement with our opponents. That is called “intelligence.” People risk their very lives to get it. Without it you are fighting blind. When you fight blind, you usually lose.

Nothing can be done to change history however history is a great tool in so many ways.

Time is the real test here Wolverine, failure to look at the presence of Islam of today and how it is moving towards a one world caliphate is an error on your part.

I still say that of the 1point something billion Muslims out there, that if they truly claimed Islam is a religion of peace they would have long ago deleted passages from the Qur’an: the violence towards non Muslims, jihad, pedophile marriages, views on women etc.

Still, your thinking towards Islam is based knowing a few people but as a whole Islam is completely different animal and Islam is mainly a herd mentality.

O.K., Marjorie, you have told us many times that we are short-sighted and too easily fooled. It does not matter even if some of us spent much of a lifetime in the field against a radical foe. If we do not have the perspective of a certain armchair general wielding a computer keyboard, we are fools. No need to repeat it. The last chorus of that song has been sung.

The Marjorie theory seems to be this: The world has many Muslims. They are all exactly the same. To the last man and last woman they are all slaves to certain passages of the holy books which command that the infidels be converted or killed. It makes no difference if their name is Bin Laden or if they lead a peaceful and moral life in Sterling, Virginia, bothering no one and harming no one. They are all alike. They all have the evil of subversion and conquest in their hearts. (Pause — Cripes, how did I ever get out of those Muslim countries alive!! And I just do not get the capture and death of Bin Laden. That doctor who helped us get Bin Laden and is now languishing in a Pakistani prison. Isn’t he a Muslim? And then there is the guy who penetrated the al-Qaeda in Yemen and came out with that new and more sophisticated bomb. I thought he was Muslim too. Can’t be. Marjorie assured us that they are all evil. What a fool am I!)

So, now comes the real answer time. Marjorie has given us a Paul Revere-like clarion call and pointed out the danger. Now it is time for a George Washington of sorts to step onto the stage and lead us into combat to achieve national salvation from the Muslim hordes. The rough estimate is that we have about 5-8 million Muslims in this country, maybe 2% of the population — immigrants, children of immigrants, local converts, Arab, African, Turk, Persian, Indonesian, Indian, Malaysian, Levantine, etc., etc. Marjorie apparently believes that none of them can be trusted. Even those who profess peace and eschew radicalism are just operating slyly under cover, waiting for the moment to come together as one and pounce on the other 98% of us.

We need a plan. This will be difficult. We have a government. We have courts. We have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. We have civil rights laws. We do not have martial law. In such circumstances, what can we do to rid ourselves of this menacing and looming horde? Perhaps Marjorie, having warned us so many times of the danger, can now give us a plan with concrete steps on how to deal with those 5-8 million Muslims on American soil who are about to despoil our country?

We are waiting, Marjorie The troops are in formation. They have heard the call for action. The call need not be repeated. Now you must tell them exactly what to do — without destroying our own Constitution, of course.

Bachmannism….doesn’t roll of the tongue quite as smooth as McCarthyism but it’s the same song.

@ jack

you wrote:

Your saying it does not make it so.

The same goes for what you are saying about an HOA. I don’t know anyone that considers our HOA to be a “government”. It is a private association of homeowners that pool their money to provide services to their community – the extent of which depends on that individual HOA. There is no power to enforce speed limits, to imprison, or seize property. There are no judges or juries.

Let me ask you this, how would you like it if the LCBOS decided that they would do Muslim, Wiccan or Buddhist celebrations to the exclusion of your religion?

Jack, religion is expression, it is not membership. Free association takes care of rights to join a church. A church is not a religion. You do not need the church of loudoun.gov to have an establishment problem. You need only government interference in religious expression.

The government Is choosing what religious expression is allowed on public space and excluding all other. They are prohibiting me from displaying my own religious message on public space.

Of course it is impossible for a minority religion to get majority borad membership meaning that there is no freedom of religios expression…only that expression the majority will tolerate.

Thank God!! We have the US Constitution to protect us against extreme views like that spewed by Marjorie. It is a blessing that our founding father’s foresight helps us and protects us today against dangerous thought which is expressed above.

Since the Mennonites have a thoroughly staunch and admired faith which is strongly centered on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, I cannot imagine what Ed’s display would look like. It sounds to me like he intends a sort of counter-display to something which has come to be one of the most ecumenical symbols in all of Christendom. Is he saying that he and the 300,000 plus Mennonites in this country woud feel left out if they could not parse a simple, virtually universal Christmas display down to the level of their own denomination? That sounds like deliberate diviseness to me.

Mennonites are also well know as ultimate believers in peace. They will not bear arms and have been excused from doing so through the generosity of their own nation, even in time of war. So, why does this guy named Ed always seem like he wants to start a fight?

American Mennonites came to this country to escape persecution, and they found here one of the few places on earth where they have been allowed to practice their religion freely and even been exempted from some of the most important duties demanded of other citizens. Is this not enough for Ed? He wants even more?

You know, Marjorie, most of those medals were received for trying to protect even the freedom of the likes of you. Not always a pleasant thought for me, I must admit; but it never kept me from my appointed rounds. I really do appreciate your profound gratitude for my service.

The funniest thing, Marjorie. Your absolutist “us and them” mentality matches that of many of the radical terrorists against whom I fought. Only they were a tad smarter than you. They didn’t always fight blind.

Additionally, just want to add that radical Muslims say that we Americans are “all the same” in that we are all immoral heathens that have no values or love for family. Just as Marjorie does to the Muslims

BTW: webster report on Ft Hood is out, here’s the link

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/judge-webster-delivers-webster-commission-report-on-fort-hood

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/final-report-of-the-william-h.-webster-commission

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/william-h.-webster-commission-letter

Well gentlemen I am so happy that you have memories of a good meal and so forth.

I also have had some wonderful meals from my Arabic neighbors, sent over by their daughters. I have also been invited to attend parties at their home and yes I did go but here’s what I have observed: non-Muslims invited given a different area to sit never once invited to join any conversation, everything spoken in Arabic etc.

This was not a single situation, it happen at every Muslim occasion that I attended and finally I stopped going.

You gentlemen are male, Muslims treat males differently so get over your high horse attitude about breaking bread with Muslims etc., What would happen if say your wives were with you? Oh that’s right, no wives with you. Shadow wars

Just step out side your little boxes and look at the bigger picture and your small memories put aside for a moment, you have talked about shadow wars and guess what: what better way to gather information than a nice meal and conversation from both sides.

Marjorie, what you described about those meals with your neighbors is not unique to Muslim culture. I have seen it in many male-dominated, non-Muslim cultures as well. I have even seen it in gatherings where I spoke their lingo every working day and night.

We Americans just have a different social approach, and that approach is a relatively recent one. It was not too long ago that, after a dinner party in America, the men retired to the host’s den to discuss business and politics over cigars and brandy, while the ladies remained in the parlor for tea and lady chat. Lower down on the social totem pole, the men left the ladies in the farm house and went down to the barn to imbibe in the hard cider and some less socially polite conversation. We changed. Many others have not. And we cannot force the issue. You work within the parameters. You do not get to set them just because you are American.

Marjorie, I have to chuckle at your last comment. Let me make you an intelligence officer or a diplomat for hypothetical reasons and place you at a social gathering at an old-time Soviet Embassy. You think you are going get some good intelligence out of social chit-chat? You see Boris over there? He is KGB security. Every Russian in that room knows it. His job is to note down who says what and take special note of whomever talks to you. Good luck gathering your sensitive info, Marjorie. The business is a lot more complex and tougher than that. That’s why it is called the “shadow wars.”

BTW, Mrs. W WAS with me almost every time. She knew how the game was really played and she knew how to play it. There were times when she was authorized to go into those “shadows” herself because her services were needed there by the USG.